Who Owns or Has owned a WL X SL Cross .. facts not opinions - Page 28

The thread has switched from the original post to an opinion piece on all things police dog .. so in parting let's ask Hired Dog, Haz and all the other psuedo experts how many police dogs they have bred and raised from birth.  Yogi Dog .. you are an expert on all things GSD so please tell us your production of police dogs as well because I think none of you have ever produced even one.  One last detail I have purposely left out as the IPO sport dog sheeple blah, blah, blah on and on about how only working line dogs should reproduce is the fact that my very first GSD that I purchased in Germany from a breeder there in the year 2000 came from a kennel run by a German K9 Officer, handler and dog breeder with over 20 dogs.  I visited his kennel twice and saw his dogs.  They were all what psuedo experts like Hired Dog would call worthless Show Line.  He had a kennel seperate from his home and it was not even close to his back yard ( quite far down the road ).  So even such self worshipping experts as Hired Dog could not label him a back yard breeder.  I can probably dig up his name and address if he is still active today but in 2000 he was an active breeder with 20 or more adult dogs, a room full of trophies ( for what that is worth ), and a long career as a breeder of GSD, K9 trainer and k9 handler.  This man had a large building with nice steel and concrete runs and a visitor's area as well as whelping and puppy areas.  He explained that he had an extensive system of co-ownership and foster homes for his puppies so that they could be socialized and trained.  He had been a GSD breeder and K9 trainer almost all of his life and was likely around 50 when I met him.  This consumate professional German Police Officer and GSD breeder who was breeding dogs just like the one I purchased from him.  The pedigree of my dog purchased from him below.  The vast majority of K9 officers in the USA have never bred or raised a GSD puppy from birth.  It's the equivalent of asking a car driver to design a car's engine and transmission .. most K9 officers are not breeders so asking them their opinion on breeding GSD's is a foolish question. 

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=26381-ulla-vom-sofienwald

Bubba, either you cant read, or more likely you just cherry pick, again, what you want to hear. I am NOT a breeder, I have NEVER bred a litter, I NEVER want to, end of that discussion.

Next,  I do not compete in IPO, never have, not my idea of fun. Now, please consider getting some help, that vitriol you keep on spewing will one day drown you, hatred is not a good to have to live with daily, nor is denial. 
Finally, a wise friend told me that " there are two types of dog people, one who like them and one who has no choice because humans dont want anything to do with them"....which one are you? take care Bubba.

im not playing this pissing contest witch dog is better cop on i know what i have breed over the years cant say im happy with all but most have done the job they are ment to im not a big breeder i do a lot more  training i dont do ipo its not my thing i train for real situations

Fair enough, Yogi. I don't remember your challenging Melba, Bubba or Kitkat to show up or shut up.

Bubba, my 2nd GSD was sired by a Trienzbachtal sire (Cago x Puppe). I haven't heard that kennel mentioned in a long time. I wonder if they are still active? I think that kennel produced a fair number of very good working GSD's.

Its funny the amount of delusion continues to reside here.  Just as many WL washout? This type of statement is made by someone that does not work dogs, nor has participated in any kind of training.

The reality is most Police dogs in north america are WL gsd sport washouts, xMal imports raised for work, and some FCI sport Mal washouts.  How do I know that?  Aside from actually training and working dogs, I have dabbled in the brokering game and familiar with a number of other brokers and their dogs.  I know were there dogs and mine come from.

Most SL/WL crosses are done for the pet crowd, if you were purpose breeding for work you would not do such a cross for reasons that should be obvious.  The occasional one which displays the correct drives despite their gentics can find their way into LE hands but they are not a reliable or common source for working dogs.

Still waiting on those vids Bubba, I got a bunch of vids of dogs I have sold or am selling.  Yes I can also tell you were they came from too..lol.  

One would think if you actually bred and raised so many good dogs there would be some video..

"One would think if you actually bred and raised so many good dogs there would be some video.."

Why, Haz? One would be unlikely to anticipate that they'd ever be in a pissing match--granted, a match that may well have been initiated by oneself-- and have to produce visual confirmation of their experiences.  Sure, video might be more common in recent years, but even then, not everyone is desperate to commit their life and the activities within it to film, or to still photos for that matter, especially if the person isn't making a profession of breeding and selling dogs for police work.  Now, yes, if someone's bread and butter comes even in part from their business of selling dogs to law enforcement, I would think they'd have video or super 8 movies or something similar to demonstrate what they were offering a potential client, but the average 'hobbyist' breeder who sells primarily to people looking for an active companion is far less likely to expend much time, energy and/or expense in that regard.

I trained and raced sled dogs for ten years--but I doubt that there's any video of it available, since that took place between 1980 through 1990, and video cameras weren't even really a 'thing' at that time.  The local news had some tape of me racing now and then, along with other drivers at this event or that, but I would be surprised if that was even kept once the day's news broadcasts had been completed.

I've told this here before, but I'll bring it up again because it makes my point nicely. My first GSD was from Wyn Strickland, back when she was still breeding 100% American GSD lines, with her primary emphasis being on the dog's trainability, intelligence and natural instincts including discernment as well as protectiveness. When Jess was a bit under 10 months old, she had not had any training beyond basic obedience work, she was being raised amongst a pack of huskies, and she had little to no exposure to children because I didn't and don't have any because I don't care for the beasts. [Only joking a little about the last part] 

My ex-hubs and I were doing laundry at the local laundramat after midnight, because that's the only free time we had to fit that chore into, and the damn change machine in the place was empty. As usual, I'd brought the pup with us, and she was lying underneath the 8 ft long clothes-folding table that was on the far side of the line of washers, happily napping, while I sat reading as I waited for my ex to get back from the 7-11 with more quarters. Because of the layout of the place, I was boxed in by the washers, the table, the back wall of the facility and all of the storefront, which meant I only had one route of escape to the single door if I needed to bolt for some reason--which never crossed my mind before that time. Only person in the joint. Street outside not well lit, town's sidewalks are rolled up. Suddenly, some tall, scraggly-haired dude in a ripped-up shirt walked by the storefront and passed by the open door, then backed up a few steps and came into the laundramat and started 'skulking' past the line of washers on that side of the room. He had no laundry with him, so he wasn't in there to do wash...I kept my head down as if I was still reading, but kept my eyes on the guy as I thought about what I was going to do if he rounded the corner at the end of the washers and headed my way.

He did round that corner, and as he did, I stood up, because there was now about 6 foot of ground between me and him. As he took his first step across that 6 foot area, from under the folding table came a low, steady, and seriously deep growl, and by the time he took a second step, my not-quite-10 month old American lines GSD had charged the dude with all the fury a 10 month old pup can muster. The only thing that kept her from nailing him directly in that moment was the length of the lead she was on, the end of which I had slipped under the leg of the chair I'd been sitting on and which the back of my knees were now up against. I took a step forward, she strained against the lead and moved the chair and took another shot at the guy, who backpedaled to avoid the bite and then bolted out of the place as if his ass was aflame. By the time the police arrived, and they'd told me that there had been several assaults by someone matching that description occuring in the area in recent weeks, the guy was long gone.

THAT was a good dog. She was NEVER inappropriately aggressive or protective, but when it was needed she turned it on, did the job, and went back to being a sociable companion that my cousin's toddlers could use to balance themselves as they learned to walk, and who would sit happily amidst a gaggle of kids at a picnic, plates of food on their laps and at eye level to her, and she would not make the slightest move toward a morsel of their food unless it was offered from their hands. She backed off a group of soldiers at Ft. Meade in Maryland when they banged on the door of our step-van at 2 AM demanding to know who we were and why we were there--seems the previous shift 'forgot' to tell that patrol about the sled dog race that weekend, and the group of 5 trucks from NJ that would be camping out there the night before the first day of racing. [Clearly pre- 9/11 days, that].  She'd happily play along with someone who wanted to 'test' her bitework, but she knew it was not a real threat, and she never brought out her warpaint for the satisfaction of a jester--a game is a game, and she knew threat and fear from BS. Had I bred her as I was initially considering--she was going to be my foundation female--there were several local departments that asked to be on her puppy 'short list' over the years, because she was the entire package. I spayed her, however, when hip x-rays I did at 36 months showed some remodeling of one hip, so they never got that opportunity as she was never bred.

Her sire was Anton's Lukenbach, her dam Wynthea's SkyLark, and she was 3-3 on Zeto v Fran-Jo and 3-3 on Arnhild's Black Frost. Her registered name was Wynthea's Imp, but everyone just called her Jess, and I'd take a hundred more like her. I lost her a week after her 14th birthday, when we discovered she had hemangiosarcoma and was bleeding out, and there was never any question about her heart, her nerve or her character.  American. Show. Lines. Would it be more difficult to find her equal in today's ASL? Probably, because that's not what most of the breeding being done with these lines has been selecting for in the past 30 years. Ditto the WGSL--yes, one has to use a finer-gauged sieve to seperate out the ones that when crossed with a solid sport-line or true working-line dogs will produce offspring that is markedly better than either parent would have produced when bred to their 'own kind'...but that is a market-driven issue, not a bloodline issue. In the US, we've long since begun to see people who have jumped on the WL wagon thinking they were going to make big money, and because they don't know what they're doing or what they're actually breeding, there are a hell of a lot of thin-nerved GSDs among the population now whose pedigrees don't show a conformation-ring specimen for 9-10 generations or more...so these dogs are not only faulty in character, they're ugly as hell to boot.

Don't have any videos to show of my old girl, except for the ones I shot for Dr. Clemmons when I sought his opinion regarding a diagnosis of DM...that footage was used in the video he made on the subject, and it doesn't show her at her best, since she was 13 and in the early mid-phase of the disease progression.  So you'll just have to take my word for it about her, or not. And if it's not, I don't really care. I KNOW what I had, and I've held every dog up to that standard from that point forward.

I dont comment on dogs from 30 years ago, its really not pertinent to the reality of what the dogs are today.  Dogs that you see at high level national trials even 10-15 years ago would not be there today.

I have dozens of breeders on facebook that range from SL, Mals to WL and ByBs.  Most of them have no issue posting vids of dogs they have produced working or doing something.

Videos are not hard to do nor is it a recent invention.  Sorry not buying it.

You are right there are many people breeding WLs that dont know what they are doing.  Its easy to see in the pedigrees of the dogs who is purpose breeding for work and who is not.  Its up to the buyer to figure this out.  By the way many of those dogs have big heads, deep pigment and nice bone..;).

I really have no issue with people that like SLs for what they are.  Its when people try to mislead others either intentionally or out of a lack of knowledge that I take umbrage.

Why must we tell lies? 

I am working a Mal now, he is one the ugliest dogs I have ever owned.  He is also the best worker and very stable. He is not going to win any beauty pagents but I would not be surprised if we have some V preformances in our future especially in protection.  I have not yet decided if he is breeding quality, he still has a lot to show me.

Thats being honest, its not so hard.  

Haz  .. how many police dogs have you bred and raised from birth??  You don't know squat about breeding GSD.  Another pretender blowing smoke.  Being a dog trainer ( even a good one ) does not make anyone a breeder.  K9 officers don't know squat about breeding dogs or raising puppies in most cases.  The K9 officers get a one year old started dog that can pass a few tests that the bokers use.  A one year old dog has not had time to wash out of any sport program ( IPO, KNPV, Mondio ) because a dog can not be titles until older in all those sports.  I suspect that Haz has dabbled but that is as far as he got with anything.  I'm pretty sure that all you do is lie Haz. Dozens of people on FaceBook .. why are they all fans of your awesome Mal .. let's see that Mal's pedigree??  Let's see any GSD's pedigree that was such a great dog.  Got any videos of your Mal working or your GSD wonder dogs??  Bred any GSD litters with multiple police K9's from your awesome WL dogs Haz?? Let's see them??  Is the link below one of your extreme dogs ???? .. didn't see a video in the ad.

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/classifieds.viewad?adid=226534

Hexe, as usual excellent post as for most of the other comments on this thread.............PATHETIC!!!.

I have left a warning before apparantly went right over the macho chest beaters heads, this is a final warning to stop bitching and goading. If members have issues with each other, which is blatently obvious here, take your nonsense to PM's. I will lock this thread if this continues.

Highlighted for the poor sighted who missed my last warning.