Who Owns or Has owned a WL X SL Cross .. facts not opinions - Page 3

I am trying to post a picture of my handler, owned, and bred male from SL female and Czech WL male. He was pick of litter, I titled him to Sch one, his structure was super and temperament very good. He was a very nice dog, that's why I would never say you can't get a nice dog from this type of breeding. BUT, he was only one pup in the litter. Overall, the balance of nerve strength and drives were not great in the litter. Reactiveness, inability to cap drives, inability to handle strong stress were also very present in litter as the pups grew into adults. Of the seven, maybe two, including the one I kept had what I consider good nerve and good drives. Yet, both parents had very good nerve. And I am not talking about nerve for LE work, these other pups did not have the nerve that could enable them to do seeing-eye work, and that has nothing to do with bite work or IPO. I can't honestly say I was surprised, because I know litters are as much what the genetics of the parents are, as they are what the parents are. I hope that makes sense. In other words, the male from this litter, though titled in IPO, and wonderful structure and temperament, if I bred him, would throw many of the defects of his siblings. So he was never bred, though many people wanted to breed to him before he went to LE work. Anyway, I hope some may benefit from my experiences, which is pretty much the same as Zeigerferm.

I have just bred and whelped my first WL X SL litter. I did not do this on an impulse. I am on my second generation of my bitch line and this is the third litter for this bitch. I feel that she produces consistently when bred to solid studs. I have had the ability to watch and work some of her progeny as they grow. She has a solid temperament and nerves which I feel are appropriate for a breeding bitch. I do have my dogs tested, intensely. I chose this particular stud after watching his progeny, some in person, for yrs, and the drives he consistently produces I believe will compliment my bitch. This is a long term endeavor for me. I will keep at least one bitch, and maybe a male puppy as well, to train and hopefully continue my lines. I  believe in my breeding 100% and I am my harshest critic. If for some reason one or both do not measure up, they will not be bred. 

theresa

My WL x SL dog is the best dog I have ever owned, he is also the worst! That pretty much sums him up!

Any pics or pedigree?? Reasons for best and worst??  What you are saying makes sense to veteran owners, trainers, breeders.  All dogs have their strengths and weaknesses.  Training and how they are raised ( both nutrition and environment as well as psychology ) is a huge factor in the finished product.  Puppies from the same litter can turn out vastly different when raised by different people.  There is no way to know if the defects in a puppy were factory defects or operator error.  Entire litters raised together are the best way to evaluate the quality of a litter but few can do that.  If you can keep the pups together until they are 8-10 months d you have a decent chance to pick out true individual differences versus environmental iluences when pups go to different homes.

I'm feeling pretty stoked about being part of this thread! Love an opportunity to talk about my best girl ~~ 

A woman I met had a nice American SL and was a pretty nice specimen from what I recall~ she had a cop friend that had a really cool young WL who I met and thought a lot of~ Anyway they bred them for fun ,,   I took the most darling one from the litter. I called her Belle! Best freaking GSD I ever owned! She was nothing to look at but her heart was all GSD~' smart, loyal, protective, crazy confident. She raised all three of my kids with NEVER as much as a mean look! She had no use for anyone outside our family but was tolerant of everyone. No health issues ~dysplasia did occur at around 10 years old she lived to be 14~ when the time came she let us know and she even passed with the dignity of fine GSD !  

Lol Ok ~'the ONLY bad thing I can think of is that she hated all small animals! She killed everything that entered the fenced yard! Squirrels were all but extinct in our neighborhood,'She was so crazy fast about it they were dead before I could blink. Poor squirrels,,,

My post on page 2 is referring to Olga's video ignoring the gunshots.  Like the video a lot and admire her working abilities, she proceeded ahead with her task in mind.    Nan

I have had three litters which were Show line X Working Line crosses ( so to speak ).  It would be just as ridiculous to say Italian X British cross.  My first litter was from a German bred show line female Ulla vom Sofienwald X a working line male Oller vom Salztalblick.  Pedigrees below.  Ulla had 4 puppies in her first and only litter.  All of the puppies were excellent.  Two went into Police work and one Axel vom Valkyrieheim was a working police dog in Carrboro and Cary NC.  Axel was owned and trained by K9 officer Seth Everett who got Axel from me as a 9 week old puppy and took him all the way to his end as a retired police K9 and death.  Seth wanted to be a K9 officer when I met him and Axel was his first dog .. his entry into the K9 handler world.   

The picture above is of Axel's brother Andi who was a tougher dog than Axel.  The best puppy in the litter of 4 ( 2 males and 2 females ) was a female .. she could out run and out jump all of the males. 

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=26381-ulla-vom-sofienwald

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=255104-oller-vom-salztalblick

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=380822-axel-vom-valkyrieheim

Ulla was an oversized female and she was not afraid of anything walking on legs. My family purchased Ulla when she was four years old.  Ulla was an excellent "cottage dog" and she was a great protector and friend for my children growing up .. part of our family.  Ulla was everything a GSD should be ... Ulla pretty much schooled me, my wife, and the children on what a great dog should be like and the respect and understanding they deserved.  Oller the puppies sire was a competition IPO dog with multiple ( 12 or more SCH III titles with Floyd Wilson of Louisburg, NC  ) but Ulla was not the least bit impressed when the dogs were introduced for mating.  If you scratch very deep you will find show line dogs in Oller's pedigree going back to Vello zu den Sieben-Faulen,  Palme vom Wildsteiger Land and Canto vom Winerau.  Closest linebreeding ( not any in 5 generations ) V Racker vom Itztal. Ulla had quite a bit of linebreeding with V3 Cello von der Römerau and Gundo vom Trienzbachtal being the closest and most noteable.  Oller and Ulla shared one ancestor 7 generations back Quanto von der Wienerau.  More later on my other dogs and puppies with WL X SL bloodlines.

 

Not surprised a bit by your description of Ulla, given the breeding behind her...the Trienzbachtal dogs have been well-respected for their working ability, and the bitches from that kennel known for their very strong character and sound temperament. 

A line breeding on Racker v Itztal that I owned. Super dog. Hard and sure in any situation ;-) http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=23362-fels-von-der-schopf

Racker cut a pretty wide swath .. his two offspring .. his son  V Dax von der Kesmarker Tränke   (6,583 descendants in 3 generations) and his grandson V Harro aus der Lechrainstadt  (12,196 in three generations) were the foundation of many modern bloodlines.  Racker's sire was a Kirschental dog. Pirol vom Kirschental  and of course they all go back to the dog that is the foundation or many if not most of today's show and working lines Vello zu den Sieben-Faulen