Wobble/hocks - Page 2

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Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 20 May 2015 - 19:05

All the dogs I have ever met, GSDs and other breeds, with 'cow hocks'

have had perfectly 'normal' lives;  these dogs can play;  they can even

run (sometimes VERY fast !);  they can 'live', in general.  These dogs are

not  'cripples'  They are merely dogs with something of a faulty structure. 

Temporary or otherwise.  To suggest otherwise is, IMO,to join with the baying

mob of anti-dog journos and PETA members.

 

I defy anybody to find me any dog with cow hocks - and no other medical

condition that may result in ataxia - [puppy or adult]  that cannot run around

perfectly happily, without any noticeable restriction on what it can do.  They

may not have the most perfect gait (though sometimes in terms of 'side gait',

even that is not true), but they are not prevented from the usual range of

movements, and do not suffer any pain.

 

While I agree totally with Nans about 'mating the best to the best' and at the

least not using a hocky dog on a hocky bitch,  I do wonder what owners are

supposed to do about the pups who are born with loose hocks NEITHER

of whose parents showed any sign of the fault  ???


by Blitzen on 20 May 2015 - 19:05

Amen, HM. Of course cow hocked dogs are not crippled only because of being cow hocked. The worst cow hocked Malamute I ever bred was a working fool in harness, won one of the first working dog titles offered by the parent club. He was a lead dog that ended up at wheel because the rest of his non-cow hocked team mates could not keep up with him in the front. Plenty of cowhocked dogs have qualifed for and finished the Iditarod and anyone who thinks that anything a GSD will ever do can even compare to what it takes to do that needs to get educated on working sled dogs. They are the workhorses of the dog world and most things a GSD does pales in comparison.


susie

by susie on 20 May 2015 - 21:05

Hund and Blitzen, the really overangulated German Shepherd dogs I met/handled/saw lacked in stability and lacked in mobility.
I really like well (!) angulated dogs, but why should I breed or buy a working dog breed that is less suitable for its work because of physical restrictions?


by Blitzen on 20 May 2015 - 21:05

Dogs don't need to be overangulated to be cowhocked.


susie

by susie on 20 May 2015 - 21:05

That´s true, but the topic says "Wobble/Hocks", and wobbling hocks are a no-go in my book.
Any dog with any angulation can be cowhocked, and that alone doesn´t limit the working ability automatically.
Some of them do develop orthopedic problems ( f.e. knies ) later on, though


by Nans gsd on 20 May 2015 - 22:05

NO it does not disable them;  but I do not recommend that for any type conformation showing as they are exhibiting structures as an example of "our" breed.  I too have had working fools that were cowhocked, hated it, would not show it as they would not WIN and probably would not finish their championship;  at least I did not want to exhibit them to the general public that the cowhocked dog was a good example of any breed.  At least not working breeds.  Sure they can run, jump and cavort just like any other puppy/dog, but I don't want that as an example of a properly structured dog.  That really is my point.  Great days everyone,  Nan

 

PS:  I have seen a lot of GSD being video'd that were definitely cowhocked.  You might call it one of my many structural pet peeves.  Definitely not something I want to pass on to puppies....

 

@ Hund:  My puppies/even young adults that exhibited a major fault, be it cowhocks, bad shoulder angulation, week knees, short necks, straight angulation, total out of balance the list goes on and on;  were sold as pets to be spayed/neutered.  Just the way I did things with those pups in the past.  If they were extraordinary in every other way with a fault, sometimes I grew them up to see what was going to take place as far as structure after maturation;  but only occasionally was I surprised and showed them later, usually I learned  and did not prefer to grow them up as my puppy evaluations were usually right.   BUT it does not mean they can not make someone a very nice pet  however,not to be bred.  Not everyone wants to show and breed.   That is also my point.  Lots of pets in the dog world...  Nan

 

On occasion you can try to help wobbling of hocks or cow hocked dogs by controlled conditioning, like tredmills; swimming, walks on sandy beaches.  Not housing them on cement surfaces, that type thing.  But it will most likely not be a great driving, working rear in motion.  You can maybe make it look better, but you can't fix it.  Nan


Jenni78

by Jenni78 on 20 May 2015 - 22:05

I think dismissing a pup who appears cow-hocked is a giant mistake. I say this because most people don't even know when a dog is truly cow-hocked and when it isn't. 


by Blitzen on 20 May 2015 - 22:05

No one is suggesting that one breeds for or to dogs with cowhocks. The point is that cowhocked dogs are not crippled only because they are cowhocked. They can function in most working venues as well as their peers who are not cowhocked.  Who would want to buy a cowhocked dog or breed one? I sure didn't want a puppy to turn out to be cowhocked, but he did and he still worked in harness at the same level as his "normal" littermates. No one has ever seen a high scoring cowhocked IPO dog? Hell there are plenty of V rated Am bred and imported GSD's at shows. Anyone look at the USCA Sieger show video?


by Blitzen on 20 May 2015 - 23:05

Jenni, I can guarantee that no dog musher, sporting dog breeder et al will ever discard a working prospect based on cowhocks alone.


by Nans gsd on 21 May 2015 - 01:05

And  if I can add that sometimes depending on the age of the pup/adult it is a matter of the pup growing into himself/herself;  sometimes it is the length of the hock itself and I found that extra long hocks which we have all seen tend to cave in and give the appearance of being cowhocked, however just a growth spurt can sometimes straighten things back up.  That is when especially the GSD can look horrid during the 4 month to 2 year stage growth;  very scarey looking.  You simply hold your breath until they grow back into the hocks, can also happen with shoulder layback, etc.  I am sure you have all seen it.  Nan

 

@ Jenni:  Like Susie said, most breeders do not want to wait and watch and grow up a cowhocked puppy for showing/working/breeding purposes, most people want to see exactly what they are going to get.  That is why I like to purchase young adults.  Usually what you see is what you get.  But puppies are truly a crap shoot, as we all know however, if all is there at the 8 week and 12 week stage and given a correct environment/diet/weight your chances are better than if you start out with wobbling/cow hocked rear or worse.  Nan






 


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