Wobble/hocks - Page 3

I though eveyone was going to talk about wobbling hocks, not Cow hocks ?
This one wobbles but the hocks point out

I haven't met all that many of these "crap shoot" puppies. Just lucky, I guess. Most pups have pretty much turned out about as expected. Not everyone can gauge structure early on or knows the right stages to evaluate. That doesn't mean the signs weren't there. I was fortunate to have a mentor who was excellent at telling early on and he taught me a lot. And when I can't tell, I ask a friend of ours who confirms or denies my concerns. Always listen to what grumpy old men have to say. 

But back to hocks...it's not all that hard to tell what will be grown into/out of and what is a permanent flaw, I don't think, although I admit I know nothing of the loosey-goosey, here, there, everywhere limbs of a lot of SL pups, so I guess I ought to shut my trap. LOL

Well yes the video of DM dog is telling;  however, my boy that died exhibiting DM never moved like that swaying, he just fell apart after years of showing signs I did not recognize;  had only seen signs in older dogs, but he started signs at 3 and escalated way beyond my knowledge by 6 years old.  Very sad disease indeed.

@ Jenni:  I think all experience from a good evaluator of puppies and adults is worth their weight in gold, not everyone can do it and not all people can be that objective with their own litters.  Kudo's for getting assistance when needed.  Two or more eyes are better than one and experienced people are hard to come by these days that have a good eye for evaluations.  Thx for sharing  Nan

I see all posters presented valuable views and points to consider, I have little more to say

I again stress that wobbling/loose rears is different from cowhocks, a dog can be coehocked but doesn't wobble, and vise versa.

Wobbling,

If you refer to my previous post about causes of wobbling you can see overangulation is one of the causes but not the only one. Wobbling is not limited to one type, that is a fact. Wobbling in the show GSD might be statistically more, reason them tending to be more angulated than the work GSD. That does not mean each show GSD has wobbling problem, nor does it mean each show GSD with deeply angulated rear has wobbling problem, at the same time logic says a overangulated dog is more prone to wobbling.

Is wobbling a fault?

Anyone who knows importance of proper rear assembly of a GSD would tell you it is in fact a very serious fault as it will lead to loss of momentum and energy transfer to upper components and then to the spine. In regards to breeding, it isn't wise to breed a dog with a serious fault, at same time there are breeders who would argue that an extra good dog with one fault might add to a breeding program through its good virtues, keeping in mind need and strategy to eliminate this fault in next generations, well they have a point there and breeding isn't simple mathematics !!!

Saying a overangulated dog is more prone to wobbling, means just that. Correctly angulated dog is what all GSD breeders should work for, not overangulated and not less angulated. A less angulated dog will not generate good sufficient drive from rear for a efficient ground covering trot, Also imbalance will be visible when less angulated rear does not compliment a well angulated front. A less angulated rear is as incorrect as a overangulated rear in regards to inefficiency.

Overangulation is not a stamp of the show GSD, many show GSDs have correctly angulated rears. At same time not all work GSDs have less than properly angulated rears.

Cowhocks

How to tell if a dog is cowhocked?

This is important, cowhocks are not judged in a still freely stand or stacked. NO, again No.

A dog is evaluated through walk going, slow walk and fast walk. Many dogs who look cow hocked standing are actually not cowhocked walking away. That should be clear, ok? because Nan insists on cowhocked standing, if I understood her correctly.

Again cowhocks are not limited to one GSD type only and causes are somewhat different than causes of wobbling. In my opinion, in general cowhocks is a less of a fault than wobbling. When you evaluate a cowhocked dog you have to take into consideration the degree of misplaced alignment (is this term correct? ). Adog whose hock tops touch in a fast walk is the worst type of cowhocks.

For breeding, degree of fault plays a role, medium degrees do not affect work ability much, but that should not be equivalent to saying cowhocks is not a fault.

Well OK Ibrahim:  NOT all dogs standing cowhocked are going to be cowhocked;  No  that is not my point.  BUT, take several good looks at the dog/puppy standing cowhocked, then watch them moving;  IS THEIR REAR MOTION (movement)  CORRECT??

Probably not.  was my point precisely...  Just want breeders to have a heads up moment,...  I have seen more dogs than not in the VA video's that were cowhocked.  Not sure about wobbling as video's are not usually long enough to see that.  If you do not have a very strong rear in a working dog, what do you have??  It is the baseline for structure, good and bad... 

Good Eve..   Nan

These are young, what age do you all think they are? Nice short grass/dirt so you can sort of see. They are narrow, but I don't think they wobble.

Sorry but you cannot tell a thing by looking at this video except poor handling and some dogs are standing cowhocked. 

I would guess the age to be between 6 months and 12 months...