Drive in Showline GSDs - Page 13

Vk - as I asked the question why not start by giving detailed answers to the ones tha you recently asked me.

Mackenzie

which show lines i would go to for police an MWD question.

i wouldn't go to those lines cos i do not know them well enough, i have never studied them.

it just so happens all the dogs i follow and am interested in and that i think might do the work mentioned happen to be what is considered working lines.

that's why i was interested in case i was missing a source of dogs/lines i am unaware of.

ok, wasn't following as first written, gotcha.

Thanks for clarifying, makes sense.

I think fundamentally, a good GSD should have the required prey and defense drives to do whatever job is asked of them, be environmentally stable, and exhibit courage and determination when needed,  with great hunt and fight drives.......and definitely not be nervy and gutless and require "help" during the titling process.  It goes without saying that they should be stable in a family atmosphere, by having the strong nerve base (rock solid and unflappable nerves) to cap the drives, when not at the work venue.     

As one can see, I am not referring to crazy sportdogs here (essentially created via highly selective breeding from original WL stock, to compete against the growing number of Mals), which are pretty much sleeve-happy prey monsters for the most part.  And to me or anyone else with a family, not very useful off the sports-field, if they have to be kenneled once they are off the field.

I wish the SLs that I saw, met the above threshold of a good dog, but I am yet to see consistent evidence of it.  As someone mentioned ealier, one might see a rare showline that shows some promise, but he/she is unable to *consistently* transfer  those abilities (lack of prepotency on those aspects) onto the next generation, to enable them to make a real difference in the SL side of the breed.  

IMHO, if one really want to improve the showlines, and bring them back to the definition of a "good GSD",  one has to indulge in some wholesale culling (remove a majority of them from breeding stock) and  to the few good ones that make it through from the culling, introduce good WL blood to improve the drives and improve/alter the structure into that of a true working dog, and bring in stabler nerves to make them better members of their families...........which also means, it is not going to happen, unfortunately !  And if it does not happen, then it is bad for the breed as a whole, since the WL dogs are not numerous enough to make a difference to the GSD image in the wider society, which is a big pity.  

PS: Just my perspective from being a long-term GSD lover, who's sad to see the steady decline in the breed.  A couple of decades back, I used to have GSDs, without them being referred to as SL or WL and wish that were the case now !

vk - that is not really much of an answer but if that is the best you can do then that’s it. Your knowledge of s/l dogs is clearly very limited and insufficient enough to get into a proper discussion. If you are really interested in learning, which you are not, then read more and stop berating those who do know more. Also, I do not believe that you know too much about working dogs, their lines or breeding for what is to become a true working dog. In fact your only focus is on aggression to the point that I am unsure as to whether you should have any dog that is to be trained for the biting exercise.

I honestly don’t like to say these things to you but that is how you come across.

The point is always laboured about the decline in the s/l GSD character but people have to acknowledge that they forget about the human input. S/l breeders tend to keep too many dogs, I know people, with twenty or more, who have very limited time to play and train their dogs, or, just walk down the high street with a dog. The interaction between dogs and humans is by association and time together which leads to firmer characters. As a breeder it is very easy to accumulate dogs over a short period of time.

Mackenzie

your kidding right, my knowledge of sl dogs ready for Leo and MWD is limited but you of 30 years in the biz say nothing more than jango and miten and that's not limited????

perhaps the answers are limited because the service ready options from the tens of thousands of sl dogs born are just limited options, think about that.

now if you were to ask me about wl....dude I will give you cell phone numbers, dates of litters, health info, performance records of parents and progeny for generations, service records f progeny, departmental testimonials, hundreds of videos, the addresses of the breeders, names and peds of both sides and dams, hundreds of videos and pay for taxi fares to have a cup of coffee at the breeders/trainers private homes on a training day.

that's how I would answer the question if someone asked me about wl. You need to have a good look in the mirror .. Jango and metin, please, you are an embarrassment.

then you rant about sl breeders having so many dogs they don't even have time to let them out of their kennels for a walk around the block. Dude your killing me.

vk - thank you for those kind words.  Goodbye.

Mackenzie

"Also, I do not believe that you know too much about working dogs, their lines or breeding for what is to become a true working dog. In fact your only focus is on aggression to the point that I am unsure as to whether you should have any dog that is to be trained for the biting exercise." to Mac!!!

I know about SL dogs.( as constituted now).  I have owned them, ( black and red Kimon granddaughter), have and still trained many many of them, was in a Sch club for five years with predominantly SL dogs. Understand their drives, nerves, hardness, in general as constituted today. Just acquired a top one from Germany for my nephew because he " likes" that type. The reason people can't have fruitful discussions about drives in SL is because the most vociferous voices on this subject are either extremely shrill, or naïve and limited in knowledge of their working ability. Dog1 who is knowledgable and really trains them at high level gave good insight about these lines as did Aakay in that post. A lot of the other posts, imo, in terms of training knowledge of today's SL is mostly offensive and defensive babble. Sometimes, truth can't be handled as Jack told us in a " few good dogs".

I'll ask again -

To get BACK TO THE TOPIC OF DRIVE IN SHOWLINES, can the original project talked about in the link above be updated? It seems like a shame to let it drop, looks like a lot of work was put into all of it. Are there enough SL people here to make it  worthwhile?