Size Development Of The GSD - Page 1

Pedigree Database


by Ibrahim on 12 July 2015 - 23:07

Written by the famous and most senior German Judge Lothar Quoll


by Von Ward Kennels on 13 July 2015 - 15:07

This was a great read! I loved it! Thank you for posting.


by Cutaway on 13 July 2015 - 16:07

I really hope to have my opinion changed of this judge one day. I personally watched him pass 11 dogs on an AD last year when only three of 11 dogs did a partial 2 mile run. During the AD the Judge sat inside the house drinking wine, eating cheese and watching soccer while the AD was going on. Then i watched him sign off on the protection phase of the dogs in the breed survey while again, Lothar sat inside the house continuing to watch soccer and the exercise was occurring in the back yard. The performance of the dogs where shyte, the helper could not even "run" out of the blind as the dogs would cower. Not one of the dogs could stay on the sleeve without a ton of help.

And these are the dogs that Lothar put his name on stating they were good for breeding.



by Hired Dog on 13 July 2015 - 16:07

Cutaway, welcome to reality. Now you know why people speak of "midnight" trials and "buying" titles and according to some, this is the most famous and senior judge.


by VKGSDs on 13 July 2015 - 21:07

Cutaway, that is awful, thanks for sharing. Last SV type event I attended I was bit by a dog who lunged for my dog on the sidelines and my arm got in the way, and I saw a dog given a lifetime breed survey when the dog didn't engage on the long bite (dog is now VA). After some whispering with the judge, the dog walked away with a lifetime breed survey. And I was told this was a judge that valued working dogs and true functional conformation. I have both WL and German SL dogs (and now one SL/WL cross) and enjoy doing all types of training and events with all my dogs, but I'm sort of done spending my time and money going to these events with SV judges that are supposedly the most experienced, knowledgable, and fair.

by Ibrahim on 13 July 2015 - 22:07

Cutaway, thanks for sharing that info. Hired Dog, I thought such a study on size would be interesting to some members, Lothar might not be doing his job properly but that doesn't deny him being the most senior judge in Germany and famous (well known among the breed crowd), I have no intention of making an add for him Teeth Smile


by aaykay on 14 July 2015 - 06:07

Yup, people talk about following the "standard" (where a yardstick is no longer a yardstick, since it keeps on "changing with the times" and changing and keeping pace with the dilution in the abilities !).  

Neither temperament, nor a truly functional structure are being followed, since the "midnight trials" (occuring in broad daylight no less !) seems to have become the norm than the exception, leading to what the breed has now become....Ouch !   Among temperament and structure, the temperament should always be prioritized, IMHO, since once lost, there is no retrieving it.

For me, a good, powerful, functional structure, could be:

And if such a dog has the true GSD temperament, that's the one that the GSD as a breed need to go back to, after ditching the droopy reared pretty-boys.




by Mackenzie on 14 July 2015 - 14:07


The example dog that you have presented was quite good in his day (born 1968) especially coming from what was an East German background.  I don't think that his progeny were as good as Condor himself but we have to acknowledge the fact that in East Germany at this time the breeders did not have a wide choice of top males.

The breed has been developing anatomically and changing in appearance from the very beginning and will continue to do so in the future. As for the future we have so many problems to face due mainly to the very close inbreed developed under the guidance of Hermann Martin first as Bundeszuchtwart and then as President.  Unfortunately size became the norm during this time and it will take many years and generations to bring it down throughout the whole of hte breed.


by joanro on 14 July 2015 - 14:07

My sentiments, also, VK. The judges want to get paid, and likely get a bonus for a 'good job'. ;)
I've seen a sleeve exchange done by the TD during a trial, softer sleeve traded to the helper so a club dog could pass.
Saw a blind search done where the handler was screaming no and calling the dog repeatedly, dog received praising from the judge and high score in protection...but the TD was the handler and hired the judge ( flown in from Germany). Saw a retired sch judge's dog get special 'help' from a first time trial judge, who walked up and stood at the dog's face after the second out command, and waited till the dog outed, so no DQ.
A lot of other crooked crap that I've personally seen at trials, enough to know that titles can be gifts.


by aaykay on 14 July 2015 - 16:07

Mac, that was just an example of what I consider as a good, balanced working structure for a working dog like the GSD, and a structural "theme" I believe the GSD need to get back to.  Going by his breed survey, he was certainly not a small dog, but there is a grace and obvious vigorousness in him, regardless of size.  My using his example was to illustrate structure, and was not an assessment on Condor's prepotency.


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