Questionable titles - Page 4

I'm a millennial, I'll have to disagree based on my observations.  The majority of my friends, starting a family and house etc don't hear much about dog sports period.  There is really no advertising for it that I see.  We are too worried about staying above water and our kids.  I would love to get more I to Dog sports but the $$ just isn't there.  Any club in a 50 mile radius are older people workong dogs.  Id rather get into another sport or mixed martial arts for $100 a month vs. $300+ a month training.  Most training I do is based on videos and word of mouth.  Many roads to Rome but you can only go so far without joining a club. We are definitely not a "soft" group.  I think millennials are sick of regulation and laws and sick and tired of being sick and tired.  priorities I guess

I understand what you say, but these people don´t need to own a German Shepherd dog.
I really believe in : Breed less, but preserve the breed in its origin ( this statement is true for Germany, too ).
The US have not been able to establish ( enough ) working clubs for German Shepherd dogs for decades now - the vast majority simply isn´t interested.
So - why own and/or breed this working dog breed at all?
The result is the "Alsatian" - like it or not.

I'm a millennial, I'll have to disagree based on my observations.  The majority of my friends, starting a family and house etc don't hear much about dog sports period.  There is really no advertising for it that I see.  We are too worried about staying above water and our kids.  I would love to get more I to Dog sports but the $$ just isn't there.  Any club in a 50 mile radius are older people workong dogs.  Id rather get into another sport or mixed martial arts for $100 a month vs. $300+ a month training.  Most training I do is based on videos and word of mouth.  Many roads to Rome but you can only go so far without joining a club. We are definitely not a "soft" group.  I think millennials are sick of regulation and laws and sick and tired of being sick and tired.  priorities I guess

-Templars

Actually your comment perfectly illustrates my current point and other points I have made here previously, on the forum.

Essentially, you don't know much about the sport as practiced in the field, haven't really "gotten your feet wet" in regards to higher competition and no one in the sport has tried to reach out to you in regards to joining a local club, etc (BTW, I'm not including private lessons).  If you go back and read some of my earlier comments here on the forum, you will see I have in fact, argued that your situation is VERY common and also bad for USA based dog sports in general. 

Honestly, you really don't know if you are "soft", by schutzhund standards, yet, because you haven't attempted to train a dog to a high competition level, shown a dog at a trial, joined a club and/or possibly haven't even titled a dog in any venue (most especially in IPO). 

I'll recap what I have seen in the sport dog world, first hand.  For example, an eager Millennial gets thier first German shepherd from a rescue/shelter (they typically do not buy from breeders and seem to try really hard to avoid it if possible, especially for the first dog), they begin to train a little, earn a CGC, then possibly get a CD, try some dock diving, nosework, tracking and/or barnhunt.  They get a little dog handling experience under their belt and eventually are referred to try schutzhund or Mondio by someone.  They arrive at the IPO club for the first time, which then treats them harshly, quickly gives them a clear idea of the rigorous training schedule at the club, the Millennial finds that schedule too demanding because they expect to train for no more than an hour or two, twice a week, as they have done previously with dock diving, nosework, tracking and barnhunt (and also for personal reasons like work conflicts, finances, etc).  They pay for their first evaluation session and find the training methods are very different from what they have been doing so far and in some cases the millennial gets a little teary-eyed when giving their first real correction to their dog.  99 times out of 100 the trainer tells them they have a junk dog that can't do IPO.  After that first session they never come back to the schutzhund world and either go full AKC or quit dog sports forever.  I have seen this exact scenario happen 3 times this year already and almost dozen more last year (mostly women under 30 years old).

Also note, susie has commented here, as well, against the high cost of schutzhund training in the USA when compared to the lower costs found in Europe.

The RH and FH are good stopgap sports that can help newbies transition later, to dogs with more drive and acclimate slowly to the more demanding training regimens required for bitework, but, this can only happen AFTER they have spent some time, as a part-timer, learning about the community, the etiquette and the rules, etc.

Is the above going to be your story too?  I'd say most likely, yes.

You make good points I actually explained to a local group near me.  It was SDA.  They all disagree with me and I'm the youngest there by atleast 15 years.  There are a lot of old heads competing.  Their kids are probably older and out or their single and married to the dogs :)

the correction part i don't agree with.  I bought a dog that I was told not to buy as a novice due to his linebreeding.  He was stubborn and I had to set in manners at a young age. Not any of the guys I know getting into the game want a dog from a shelter.  Kennels in Canada are cheaper.  I got a great dog now.  

You make good points I actually explained to a local group near me.  It was SDA.  They all disagree with me and I'm the youngest there by atleast 15 years.  There are a lot of old heads competing.  Their kids are probably older and out or their single and married to the dogs :)

the correction part i don't agree with.  I bought a dog that I was told not to buy as a novice due to his linebreeding.  He was stubborn and I had to set in manners at a young age. Not any of the guys I know getting into the game want a dog from a shelter.  Kennels in Canada are cheaper.  I got a great dog now.  

@Templars, below I have posted some links to old threads where I pointed out that demographics, for the under 30 crowd, have changed in such a dramatic way in the USA and in such a short period of time, that IPO clubs "need" to start bending over backwards to bring in young members, despite never having done that in previous decades.  Even if it means hand-holding them through training more, than was done traditionally.  Club structures and culture will "need" to make dramatic changes in the next 10 years, to keep a large enough pool of young people interested in the sport.  Note, I said "interested", not full-blown, jump in the deep end, fanatical dedication (which is what they want).  These people can't see this is a "Need" versus "Want" situation.  Essentially, any other course of action that does not educate young people to the benefits of the IPO venue, NOW, will result in its piecemeal banning.  What the current schutzhund community does not seem to understand is that those same young people that they don't want in their clubs, when they get older, will not understand anything about schutzund or why it exists and will have no inclination to protect it legislatively.

Here are the links, to just a few of the most notable arguments I had.  Also make note at the hostility some members showed, when it was pointed out that they did not understand their "new customers/members" mindset, nor understood how shifting demographics could have future legal implications for the sport.  Most continued to cite a few exceptional examples of young participants, they met, assuming it was the norm, while also trying really hard, to convince everyone that those situation were not just luck, but the basis of a repeatable recruiting methodology.  You should read the threads from the beginning, but the links noted below are the pages where I posted my comments:

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/forum.read?mnr=528062-what-is-your-opinion-on-schutzhundsport-in-the-usa&pagen=2

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/forum.read?mnr=734269-german-rules-for-german-shepherds&pagen=29

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/forum.read?mnr=800644-gsdca-lawsuit--letter-of-clarification-from-the-akc&pagen=5

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/forum.read?mnr=585765-what-is-the-true-state-of-schutzhund-participation-and-growth-in-the-usa

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/forum.read?mnr=788580-ipo-2050--what-must-change-tracking&pagen=5

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/forum.read?mnr=747152-ipor-title&pagen=2

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/forum.read?mnr=121819-just-curious

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/forum.read?mnr=748235-how-does-the-hgh-compare-to-akc-ccourse-herding&pagen=3

You can see by the responses that these guys are in total denial about what is in store for them and the sport, in the near future.

Not a whole lot of cooperation in the breed, is there? Why?

Not a whole lot of cooperation in the breed, is there? Why?

-Blitzen

Its because polarized Americans can't seem to find a way to cooperate with other polarized Americans. 

Polarization is a U.S. new "tradition". 

The infighting we see with "dog clubs" is just a small glimpse of symptoms that are part of a much larger problem, with the U.S. population, as a whole.

I believe the polarization in the breed actually benefits the puppy farms and marginal breeders. I makes for a haze around true breeding practices to confuse and corrupt the breeders and the buyers. I have been in dogs for 4 decades and have heard of most of it before. Fraud in OFA, AKC champions being manufactored and Working titles being placed in score books. A strong grass root GSD exhibitor-breeder-trainers can make finding the real-deal easier. You will need to move away from key board.

Momo-

outstanding!-- you put a lot of my thoughts on paper.  Where are you located? When I get off work I'll look through those threads.

im 32, fell upon Schutzhund after researching a dog for my house.  I then quickly got interested in training and I have a friend nearby that followed and recently I took him to get a pup down south in US.  I then saw some decoys at a local group who were trainers and they were older men and really out of breath. They train for a living, I get it. I was very eager to learn about the decoy work along with training and found quickly that they wanted a lot of commitment.  After about 8 months and draining the bank account I took home a lot of knowledge and I'm confident I could get a BH easily, but the advanced stuff no way without training. 

Its definetly an addiction but my friend and I lose focus quickly when we think about our families and our children and future children's future.  I get knowledge where I can.  John Soares is near me and he has decoy class for X amount of weeks for 8k I believe.  Awesome stuff, but like I said, priorities.  Especially those starting out in a home and and not living in mommy basement.  I'm willing to get creative as I can to obtain knowledge on training