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by joanro on 17 July 2015 - 20:07

 "what sort of loser derives value from a title they did not earn."

That's easy...titled dogs sell for more money, titled dog's puppies sell for more money.....even when the tiles are fake.

momosgarage

by momosgarage on 18 July 2015 - 00:07



You are assuming that this is not done :) Again, generally (same 1 out 15) will show up for one or two tracking sessions and then quit because its not fun... We have very limited tracking resources here in our region. This requires getting up supper early, making a 60 - 90 minute drive and getting a track laid all before 5 a.m. The SAR and AKC groups here in my area actual shut down from may/june - oct/nov because of the heat and ants.

But our club absolutely supports and encourages members to pursue Non-Title Training degrees such as FPr; TR, UPr, OB, StP. The only thing we do not permit is Protection work with out doing Tracking and OB therefore, as i am sure you noticed, APr is not on the list. We make no apologies for this either.

I am impressed regarding your burn out rate. I find it very disheartening to continue to make the drive, train with new members while your dog sits in the vehicle and then the excuses of why they 'cant train today' start coming. As a club we have to circulate new members so that we do not get jaded by spending time training and teaching only to have them walk away at the end with the same excuse: I don't have the time to do this, weekends are reserved for family and i work during the week... Some of our older (in terms of length in the sport) members now just flat refuse to work with noobs until the noob has proven them self. BTW, its not the millennials that we have a problem washing out with as much as the mid 30's and up group.  


I can explain how we deal with this...
 
We refer "thrill-seekers" to private trainers.  We want to help people, in the club environment, that are primarily interested in "dog training".  Thrill seekers are EASY to spot, so we know when we see them, right off the bat.  The reality is, if they aren't interested in tracking and scentwork, they aren't really interested in "dog training".  The people you claim to be having trouble with, in reality, didn't come to your club to train dogs, they came to put the bite-suit on and teach their dog how to grab the sleeve (so they could show their friends at home of course!).  Everyone in our club is focused on scentwork and/or herding FIRST, people who want "bite-work FIRST" don't typically come our way.  Perhaps we give off the right vibe that keeps "thrill-seekers" away.  On the flip side your club seems to be attracting them.  Either way, those types make poor club members and even worse dog trainers. 
 
Are you telling them, upfront, that they will most likley not be doing bite-work with their current dog, at your club, EVER?  If not, they are quiting because they think you are blowing smoke up thier butt.  Also I don't understand why you are not teaching the BH in bite-sized session.  Will doing it this way make them ready for the IPO1-3? NO, but it will get something under thier belt, reduce the amount of time they need to spend on the field and reduce the amount of time club members need to spend with them.  They also don't need to be there all day to learn and eventually pass the BH, you can have them come a couple of nights on the weekdays, then let them spend one morning on the weekend to do tracking, give them homework and then let things evolve naturally.  People interested in "dog training" will do the boring stuff like the BH and tracking, IF, you give them a bite-sized training schedule, that they find reasonable.  Again "thrill-seekers" will not do this.  It seems like you and other clubs are trying to "boot camp" what I consider "thrill-seekers" into becoming the reliable "club members", which is impossible because they are not interested in dog training in the first place.
 
In addition we also have people whom have worked in the non-profit sector and are used to scheduling flaky volunteers.  These club members hand-hold newbies and pressure them to keep their training schedule, so no ones time is wasted.  Yes, its time consuming, but also very effective at getting newbies through the initial growing pains.  Within a year they are policing themselves quite effectively and require no more hand-holding.
 
As I said before, many schutzhund clubs may simply need to become closed organizations, similar to golf country clubs or duck hunting clubs, that carry a big initiation or buy-in fee, operating soley on supervised visits and sponsored membership.  My position has always been, if you can't run the club like a small, self-supporting, non-profit, than you have no business accepting new members or offering walk-in training to the public.  That is what it takes TODAY, the old way is now obsolete because people under 40 have been raised in a totally different world and WILL NOT self-police themselves, nor respond in a way conducive to a contemporary schutzhund clubs operations.  Newbie "interest" is all you've got to work with these days, either take advantage of it as-is or leave it on the table for someone else who can handle it.  Once you start thinking like the hospital admin that has to deal with and schedules "Volunteer Candy-Stripers" you will start having more success with newbies.  If you can't do this, simply become a closed club, only inviting people based on existing member sponsorship, charge big initiation fees and act like a country club, from here on out.  Frankly, I see the typical schutzhund club approach becoming less and less effective every year, hence the exponential growth of dock diving, barn hunt and nosework.
 
I also hope this addresses the offhand comment made by gsd2407 because I speak as a board member of a dog club, are a former golf country club member and duck club member whom served on a committees that reported to the board (I don't need the last two memberships anymore because I no longer have to shmooze big clients for a living).  You guys have lots of tools available, but I suspect many of you have too limited experience in other areas, that would improve your approach to the operational club issues, which have nothing to do with dog training.  Schutzhund clubs could learn a lot from organizations like the North American Versatile Hunting Dog Association because they EFFECTIVELY deal with the same issues we are discussing here, but NO ONE bad mouths NAVHDA if they can't hack the training or can't afford program costs (also on a side note, their leadership seems to know the FCI rules better as well).

Cutaway

by Cutaway on 21 July 2015 - 15:07

@momosgarage - I would like to see your clubs: Mission statement, welcome packet and your message of "what you can expect upon first visit" statement/page. Are these things you are willing to share?

Will send you a PM so as not to take this off topic

by emmitt on 24 July 2015 - 15:07

Hope this isn't off topic

I think sometimes.... its just the total isolation between the different sports that is killing us!
Honestly...I do herding mainly, but I do also do CKC Obed, Tracking, Rally and I try to do BH and AD..

When I had my young dog out to do AD, one of the club members (an older gentleman) asked me what I was doing with
him... I said I am Herding with him.... he said "Oh so you don't care if he is titled?"

Well yay I care....but I was hoping to title him in HERDING...sigh

The drop out rate in Herding I really think is similar to IPO...where I go (all breeds) they start you out in the small 40x50
space.... then they have 2 other sized areas before you get to the "big field"...... so after two lessons basically everyone asks
"When do I get to go out THERE?" and when they politely say "We will see... ummmm...maybe next year" and then they ask
"Well when will I be ready to trial?" and they say..".ahhh....maybe the year after that.........."
that's it you never see them again.

Herding is also very expensive... I was paying 320.00 a month for lessons...and finally decided to invest in my own sheep so I could cut down to one lesson a week...but not everyone can just have sheep!

there are no trials here for C course and no one even talks about HGH....... so we do Border Collie type trials with 3-5 sheep with dogs that were meant to work 100s.........

two years ago the GSDCC approached the Trainers where I go for lessons about holding herding trials as part of the GSD Nationals.....then they quickly figured out they would not haveeven a handful of entries and dropped it all together......

I don't know if people realize that no one is doing anything with GSDs in other venues...I mean really knows...... there are so few doing agility that I was told (by I think a reliable source) that the GSD Agility Team had ONE GSD on it and the others were all mixed breeds.

Last year I finished my guys Rally Titles....he had his first leg of Advanced the year before so I did 2 legs of Advanced and 3 legs of Excellent....
I was happy with him... he had decent scores....all was good....so total I had him out 5 times ......one day I had this envelope arrive from the CKC..I wasn't expecting anything..... turns out my dog was FIFTH leading GSD in Rally in CANADA.....with five scores..... like how sad is that?

I don't know how we fix things...but its seems there is so much hostility.....if you don't do IPO then you don't amount to a hill of beans...but man it would be nice to see people out with their AWESOME GSDs in other venues as well

I wished with all my heart... and felt incredible guilt I didn't do an IPO title with my old dog... I always felt like I let him down because of time/money/work?kids ect.... I never ever would of thought you could buy a title... sorry for being naïve...but that makes me sad.

I really wanted to import a titled male...... but maybe I will think on that abit ......just in case.





 


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