IPO prospect? - Page 1

Pedigree Database


by Curt K on 22 July 2015 - 18:07

Can anyone give me an opinion on IPO training possibilities by her pedigree? Please look up Ziva Lieben von Ricktorius on GSD search A Thank You to all that respond Curt

by hntrjmpr434 on 22 July 2015 - 19:07

You can only plan out so much just by looking at a pedigree. I have seen dogs that are bred beautifully, but are total shi* in the work. Have you seen the dog in person?

by hexe on 22 July 2015 - 20:07

Depends on a lot of things, not the least of which is how talented the person who is training and handling the dog is...

The breeder might [read: SHOULD] be able to give you more insight as to her suitability in the sport, since I would hope there was some valid basis for doing a mother to son breeding.

It's an inbreeding that would make me somewhat nervous, frankly.

by vk4gsd on 22 July 2015 - 21:07

Mother to son???

I know they are just dogs and wild animals do this all the time but sheesh just anthropomorphizing such measures in domestic animals just seems wrong and barely justifiable without a panel of breed experts and geneticists on hand plus a dam good reason.

by hexe on 22 July 2015 - 22:07

vk4gsd, that's why I'd REALLY want to talk to the breeder who did this pairing and find out why they elected to do it, and how well they know the dogs behind the sire and dam...and why it's an inbreeding that I'd be nervous about buying into; Scott Deodatus is not a dog I'd want to double up on.

Frankly, I can't see the thought process of this breeding, since the sire is a product of a total outcross of a 100% working line male to the 100% high line female [who looks to be a very nice show line bitch with just a single instance of linebreeding in 5 gens, on Visum Arminius, with several dogs in the pedigree that were considered to be and produce good, honest workers]...I get the idea behind doing the working/show cross, and then taking the offspring of that and going back to the showline base, but the bitch would have to be awfully strong in what she produced previously before I'd take her outcross-product son back to her...

One thing for sure, that tight a breeding most definitely up the odds of either getting something absolutely FANTASTIC, or being an absolute DISASTER. I'm not that intrepid a gambler to risk it in a companion species of animal; at least with livestock, you can always butcher the unfortunate outcomes and feed yourself.

To the OP, if you're really interested in this bitch, I'd recommend you do a LOT of inquiring about the dogs behind her, their siblings and half-siblings and all of their offspring, especially with regard to health and physical soundness--and insist on seeing a passing OFA hip, elbow, & cardiac certification before parting with any money [I wouldn't settle for a 12 month old hip cert with breeding this close..let's see those hips again at 24 months or more].

by vk4gsd on 22 July 2015 - 22:07

And any number of decent ipo prospects aren't already readily available without taking such extreme risks, none, anywhere????

by hexe on 22 July 2015 - 23:07

vk4gsd, we both know the answer to that question. :)

The bitch in question is a pretty girl, and she may well be suited for the work [though it's unlikely that she'll be showing up in the WUSV World Championship, unless she has a phenomenal handler and trainer...if we're being honest, few showline dogs can make that trek to that level], and maybe she's just got that special something that has clicked for the OP--I know how that is, I've got a bitch like that lying behind my chair right now, so the inbreeding wouldn't have dissuaded me. But it's not a decision to be entered into lightly, because this isn't some hobby item like the drones everyone is buying around here to take aerial shots of their gardens--this is a sentient being, with an expected lifespan of another 10+ years [hopefully], and if she develops health problems or she doesn't pan out for IPO, she can't just be shoved to the back of the top shelf of the coat closet and forgotten.


by susie on 23 July 2015 - 20:07

I´d just try it...then you will know.

Although a 2/1 breeding is forbidden in my country I see why this breeding was done.

Akita brought ( only according to the titles, I don´t know Constantine personally ) a good son.
Dam Akita, out of Erasmus, worth a second look in case anybody is looking for showlines able to work.
Sire of Constantine Ron, a workingline, out of parents who prooved their working ability
Now Akita bred back to Constantine - the attempt to preserve working ability by preserving conformation.

Makes sense

In case you don´t own this dog already, ask for official hip and ED results.

by hexe on 24 July 2015 - 04:07

susie, I understand intent of taking the dog that's the work/show cross back to show line again...but there are plenty of show line bitches around of equal quality, and similar but not identical lineage, to Akita, which would still bring some unique DNA into the deck of genetic cards and reduce the risk of unknown recessive traits or conditions rearing their ugly little heads while still setting the desired conformation. Bringing this male to a Erasmus daughter who didn't also carry Scott would have been preferable, IMO, to this mother/son inbreeding.


by susie on 24 July 2015 - 05:07

Hexe, I wouldn´t have done it, too, I only tried to show why it was done.


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