any insight on this breeding pair? - Page 2

if 90% of the greats make 10% worthy offsprings what % do the ''not so great' produce? What % do the turdmasters produce? To everyone who wants to have more than a picture of a GSD, get involved and then evolve.

Student, your analogy is bogus.
Student says; 'I am going to buy a horse for racing. the parents have not been to the track in 7 generations but i did see one run in a pasture and he looked fast. there are horses in his pedigree with fast-sounding-names, so he must be worth the money and the time. the mother's owner says this is a winner colt. right?'

First, there are suckers born every day , so if you sees a colt and wants to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars to have it trained, by a crook who would take your money, youre getting scamed. If you want a horse for racing that isn't already raised and trained, go to the yearling sales and buy one, then spend thousands and thousands to have it trained and by some stretch, it might make it to a race track.
Second reason your analogy is bogus...I can take a dog, say a catahoula leapard hound for example, apply my training and title it in IPO. Guarantee you the dog will not have one single ancestor that was ever titled. It could be a pit bull, an Airedale terrier, take your pick, but zero IPO/sch in background.
The chances of you buying colt ( even if its from a racing stable) and you personally training it to become a successful race horse is zero. Unless you happen to be a race horse trainer/rider. So you are mixing cement with air trying to make a concrete slab...
But anyone with any training ability can take a gsd with sound nerves and temperament and train/title it to IPO even if the ancestors have not been titled.

Student says; if 90% of the greats make 10% worthy offsprings what % do the ''not so great' produce? What % do the turdmasters produce? To everyone who wants to have more than a picture of a GSD, get involved and then evolve.

So in other words, gsd are all turdmasters if they are not titled? Bs. This is why IPO titles can be bought and paid for, dog's presence not required......you're mantra is the reason suckers in the USA pay tens of thousands of dollars for 'titled' gsd from EU that the dog does not even know what a hold and bark is and could not retrieve a dumbbell over a hurdle if he tried. But buy golly the dog's papers show he's titled, there fore the puppies from these 'titled' dogs sell for thousands...but the pups wash out when the poor dumb suckered buyer tries to train it.

Why is this thred a sticky on gsd forum?

Joanro; I was told when I started training to just hire someone to train the dog for me, I would not be successful. I worked to make that statement void. If i truely wanted a race horse I would do my home work and find out what it took to have success. You telling me I have a zero % chance would not stop me. I would research, work, learn, and grow. If I found I did not have time or pocketbook to do it I still might want a horse but it might be a pleasure-trail animal. Every single bad breeder makes the same claim as to how good there dogs are and they are not in the ''organization'' because they know better or more. I hope the person looking for a sport pup does their research. Get away from the keyboard and go see trainers. In my many decades of GSD involvement, I know titles are bought but not in the circles I travel in.

Every single bad breeder makes the same claim as to how good there dogs are and they are not in the ''organization'' because they know better or more.

I know titles are bought but not in the circles I travel in.

I haven't been in the breed as long as you have, Student, but in our small club our members don't buy their titles either. I see them working hard and often with their dogs and they get them titled the right way; barring unforeseen circumstances, they don't breed their dogs until they do.

 

Student says; 'You telling me I have a zero % chance would not stop me. I would research, work, learn, and grow...'
That's why I said your analogy is bogus...nobody sees a colt in a pasture and decides they are a race horse rider and trainer, much less capable of breaking a colt.
Then you would not be buying a horse first, especially not a weanling. Horses are not dogs...there have been many very skilled, talented horsemen who have been killed by horses and race horses are an explosion waiting to happen.

A novice can raise, train and title a dog; a novice cannot train a race horse from weanling to the track...they'd likely get killed in the process.

Joan, your below statement is the key to a sport prospect, as opposed to having a bunch of ancestors with titles beside them:

"But anyone with any training ability can take a gsd with sound nerves and temperament and train/title it to IPO even if the ancestors have not been titled."

Without titles how does one determine which dogs are breed worthy?

Can someone post a link: I couldn't pull it up for some reason. Thx Nan