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Pedigree Database

 

by Mackenzie on 10 October 2015 - 06:10

So many threads that come to the PDB become a matter of them and us between the people who say they come from the Working side and those from the Show side. The biggest dispute normally comes down to the accusation that the show dogs are unable to work and eventually to the suggestion that the breed should split with one side being treated as a different breed.

How is it that we have come to such a bitter difference? Worse still why has it been allowed to develop to the levels that we see today?

All over the world there are many thousands of followers of the German Shepherd who faithfully go to their clubs and train their dogs week in and week out and for what reason. For many of them it is just a social gathering as well as the enjoyment of training their dog. For others there is the more serious side of competition. To attain perfection with your dog must be a wonderful sensation for those that get there whether it be from work or show. In terms of the world wide picture the competition working people represent a fraction of less than one per cent of the people engaged in some activity of the breed, however they are the most vociferous in the criticism regarding the decline in the breed without recognising properly their part in this situation.

I agree that there has been some decline in some aspects and some things have to be faced up to by everyone. The working side continually accuse the show dogs as being unable to work. This is an absolute nonsense. The majority of dogs come from show lines and they do display the ability to work every day of the week in the training clubs. This is borne out by the simple fact that in so many places around the world the dogs must have a working qualification before being accepted as a breeding animal and this is a positive requirement for the breed. It does not matter that the majority do not achieve the super high levels of the competition working side whether it be for SchH, IPO, or whatever. The qualification of any test, or, level is a confirmation that the dogs have the ability to work. A Pass is a Pass. Also, and guess what, these are the very same tests and requirements of the working side, what a surprise that is. Probably so to the working people who are so vociferous and, sometimes offensive, in their comments and criticisms.

There is only one German Shepherd breed and, as Max v Stephantiz said from the beginning of this wonderful breed, “we have a working dog that can be shown”.

Mackenzie

by vk4gsd on 10 October 2015 - 07:10

The most vociferous......who just started yet another thread identical to every other thread they start, LMAO.

All GSD came from working dogs, please do not insult us by revising history the way you would like it to be.


Congrats on another vociferous thread.

by Mackenzie on 10 October 2015 - 07:10

Hello VK I guessed you would be one of the first to respond in your usual way.

First of all should learn to read what has been said. Nowhere in the comment is there any reference to the GSD not coming from a working dog. No insult. No rewriting history. Nothing said about what I want, or, how I would like it to be.

Mackenzie



mrdarcy (admin)

by mrdarcy on 10 October 2015 - 07:10

VK, please watch how you respond to other members, please do not start yet another thread on the downward spiral. Thank you for your co-operation

by bebo on 10 October 2015 - 08:10

The qualification of any test, or, level is a confirmation that the dogs have the ability to work. A Pass is a Pass.

so you're suggesting trial ratings are irrelevant other than provide a pass/fail assessment ? that a dog with a (show, ipo, agility, rh, etc.) score of G is of the same quality as a dog with a V score? ... please.

 

The majority of dogs come from show lines ...

well, if you continue to work that line of reasoning backwards, i'm pretty sure that all show line dogs originally come from stock that is anything but show line. now what?

 

... the working people who are so vociferous and, sometimes offensive, in their comments and criticisms.

potato, potato. just because insults and innuendo are thinly veiled doesn't make them any less offensive. come to think of it, i have never, ever heard a working line owner complain and whine about their show score. heck, i haven't seen a single thread on this board, or anywhere else for that matter, started by a "working (line) person" condemning the "show people", to borrow from your vernacular, for a subjectively perceived inadequate score.  and why would they? you go, you koer, you move on. it's a one, well now a two, off. btw, “we have a working dog that can be shown” does not implicitly equate to  "we have a show dog that can be worked." 

the 'one breed' train has long left the station and simple side-by-side comparisons of recent bszs and bsp blutlinien charts clearly supports that divergence. you decreeing otherwise doesn't change that one iota.


mrdarcy (admin)

by mrdarcy on 10 October 2015 - 08:10

If this thread turns into another bashfest I will delete it all, one and only warning.

I do have to add in response to your comment bebo about working (line) person not starting threads downing show people, that may be the case. But I as a moderator have deleted more comments bashing showlines/breeders/owners than any other comments. I have never had to delete any comments bashing worklines/owners/breeders and that is fact......carry on now please.


by Mackenzie on 10 October 2015 - 09:10

Bebo I will answer you comment one by one in the order that you have made them.

“The qualification of any test, or, level is a confirmation that the dogs have the ability to work. A Pass is a Pass.”

I have made no reference to, or, suggestion that trial ratings are irrelevant. Nor is there any reference or inference that G rating is equal to a V rating. Everyone knows that there is a big difference. To gain any qualification it does not matter whether the pass mark is the lowest possible to gain that level, or, whether it is the maximum that can be obtained. A Pass is a Pass. It is the trial ratings that show the quality of the Pass and that is the difference.

"The majority of dogs come from show lines"

When the breed began in 1899 there were only working dogs, however, in the lets say modern era post WW2, people began to show more of their dogs with very little attachment to working their dogs above the minimum requirement to allow them to breed from their stock. The result is that we make the description as show lines or working lines. However, I do agree that the beginnings were working stock and there can be no doubt about that. Fact. It does however establish that the show dogs can work and obtain a qualification even it is with over and above the minimum pass mark.

"The working people who are so vociferous and, sometimes offensive, in their comments and criticisms".

I have presented my comments without insult or innuendo to be offensive to anyone. I have made no comment about working people and the scores they have made with their dogs. My comments are nothing to do with levels or scores specifically. When I quoted the words of the founder of the breed that is exactly what I meant and, for you to translate that as “we have a show dog that can be worked” is just simply not understanding the English language and, I do not know what gives you the right to alter and wrongly interpret any comment that I make.

The Train, as you say, has not left the station. The suggestion was made by a working person on another thread only a few days ago. It was this suggestion that prompted me to begin this thread. I am not the one trying to make the changes by dividing the breed. There is only one German Shepherd Dog whether you and others think there should be, or, not.

Mackenzie

by Ibrahim on 10 October 2015 - 19:10

This is a interesting thread to follow for sure, we may stand on different sides of the river but still can smile to and enjoy presence of each.
I would love to say good evening to bebo, I learned a lot from this good man

Ibrahim



bubbabooboo

by bubbabooboo on 10 October 2015 - 22:10

The genetic differences between any two dogs of the GSD breed are inconsequential .. there is no genetic difference between so called show and working lines. There are 4.5 million GSD owners in the USA and 4.498 million don't care about the show line and working line BS. There are good and bad dogs either mentally or physically in all GSD populations .. just different defects crowded more in one cult than the other but all with defects. As a breeder the best way forward is to breed to your own personal standard and vision of what a GSD should be and ignore all others. Life is too short to try to please idiots.





 


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