Can anyone verify these pedigrees or is this guy trying to scam people out of deposits??? - Page 4

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Smiley

by Smiley on 06 November 2015 - 20:11

Darlene,

Please stick around....you are clearly knowledgeable about genetics and seem quite reputable. Obviously, you don't like to see poor specimens bred and we would all agree with you.

I wish people would stop focusing on the outside color of the dog and start focusing on the inside. A german shepherd is not defined by its color but by its character, working ability, and type. I have seen breeders breed black and red dogs (shockingly with titles) who should never have been bred based on their character or genetics.

I would rather have a great german shepherd that is any gosh damn color than a black or black and red that has a poor temperament, health, or type.

Please. Stop. I have seen some pretty freaking great white german shepherds.

Everyone should worry about producing german shepherds with type, character, good health, and working ability as the rest is gravy.

A good german shepherd is a good german shepherd regardless of color. To those that argue it's not breed standard...than take out all the oversized dogs from the SV breeding program. An oversized dog is a much greater health risk than a dog of a different color.


Sarah


yogidog

by yogidog on 06 November 2015 - 20:11

What bullshit we have had many a topic on breed standerd people moneing about this and that when it comes to the GS . But to intend to go outside the standard on purpose and then people think it ok that's a joke . Susie has a lot of knowledge and needs to be listed to now. blue is not ok to breed it's just another way of diluting the GS .what's next floppy ears.

by Living Fence on 06 November 2015 - 20:11

Quote Susie:
"To Living fence: ....
We ( Germany ) are not able to sell on "limited registrations" - every dog/puppy bred according to the rules gets its pedigree...
but we are forced to show and title our dogs later on ( in that case: a blue/liver dog, although with pedigrees, is not allowed for breeding...) =
Breed selection"


Das weiß ich sehr gut Wink Smile (In English: I know that very well)

The OP didn't ask for everyone's opinions on colors outside the breed standard. I suggest that people who want to discuss breeding for color, within (black/red comes to mind) or outside (blue etc) the breed standard, start a new thread.


by Living Fence on 06 November 2015 - 21:11

Take 2 on the question whether the pedigrees of the 'off' colored dogs might be fake:

I checked the registrations and dual registrations for the dam of the liver male and the dam of the blue female.

The liver colored male's dam, Puma de Pozalmuro, is registered in Spain. Use the Spanish google and you find the kennel, a WL kennel: http://www.pozalmuro.com/principal.htm The liver dog entered as her son has the same kennel name in the PDB entry. This would be the case if he is born, named, and registered as a puppy in Spain and then exported to the USA where he is registered with the AKC. He would have dual registration, Spanish (LOE) and US (AKC).
The sire of the liver colored male is entered as vom Salztalblick. His only registration seems to be with the SV (SZ).

The blue colored female's dam, Tilda vom Holtkämper Tor, is dual registered with the SV (SZ) and with the Portuguese kennel club (LOP). "Da Casa do Bento" would then be a Portuguese kennel. Indeed, use the Portuguese Google and you find it, a SL kennel: http://www.casadobento.com/defaultEN.htm The blue female was then born, named, and registered as a pup in Portugal, sold to the US, and might have been registered with the AKC. The US buyer may have requested the name "Blue Pretty Woman". BUT I did not find an entry for her in the AKC database.
The sire of the blue female is entered as a SL male registered in Switzerland (SHSB) and the China (CSZ). I had found the CSZ registration a while ago already. In that scenario, Holtkämper Tor had sold the female to Portugal and had nothing to do with the litter that had a blue pup.

So neither Salztalblick nor Holtkämper or would have control over the litter (unless the stud agreement for the Salztalblick sire had some kind of clause about off colored pups having to be sold without registration papers).

I added the Spanish and Portuguese registration numbers to their entries on PDB.

I don't know whether it happened as I analyzed above but it is both possible and plausible. Hope this helps.

LF (pedigree researcher)


susie

by susie on 06 November 2015 - 22:11

" So neither Salztalblick nor Holtkämper or would have control over the litter (unless the stud agreement for the Salztalblick sire had some kind of clause about off colored pups having to be sold without registration papers)."

That´s what I tried to say...Wink Smile

Try to find "Pretty woman" in the AKC database, not BLUE pretty woman, it´s a "P" litter.


by Living Fence on 06 November 2015 - 22:11

When I use the AKC or any other registry database, I try various permutations of the name, checking each part and combinations of parts, and common misspellings. Esp. if the dog is an import to a country with a language different from the country of the first registry. Names often get butchered in that case.
If you found an entry in a registry database, Susie, please share it.

susie

by susie on 06 November 2015 - 23:11

I ended up at Exotic shepherds in Puerto Rico - makes sense - what a mess

Jenni78

by Jenni78 on 07 November 2015 - 02:11

I think some would be surprised how many would try to breed blues...I was stunned when I had my blues and had people I *thought* were breeding to the standard trying to get me to sell them with full reg. I didn't. I sold them for 1/3 the regular price as pets. One woman assured me the male (it was Ely) would be titled before breeding and I'm like...uh, titled or not, he's still BLUE. I still get inquiries for blues. There is quite a following for them, especially if they come from decent lines, not like the Am. BYB blues that don't even appear to be purebred GSDs.

I would never try to produce them but I am not ashamed of the fact that I have accidentally produced them once.

That pedigree looks very believable for those colors, FWIW. Whether he has the right to breed them, well, that's another story, but I believe both sides carry for those colors. I've seen quite a bit off of Pike, as others have mentioned.

Sunsilver

by Sunsilver on 07 November 2015 - 04:11

BTW, I meant to include the link to Darlene's site in my previous post. There is some VERY interesting stuff re. the genetics, and the different ways the colours manifest themselves: http://www.bluedogs.8m.com/

What's the first thing you read on the site?

THIS IS AN EDUCATIONAL SITE

I understand the viewpoints of those who don't like what she's doing. It is not something I'd do myself. However, I respect her right to do as she wishes, and I respect the way she's going about it!


susie

by susie on 08 November 2015 - 17:11

Right now there is an ad online offering a liver puppy with FULL AKC REGISTRATION ( sire : Figo )

This is out of the AKC standard for German Shepherd dogs:

Color:

The German Shepherd Dog varies in color, and most colors are permissible. Strong rich
colors are preferred. Pale, washed out colors and blues or livers are serious faults
A white dog must be disqualified.






 


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