Sloping backlines and over angulation - Page 15

Xeph says; "For his work, structure was very important...for other types of work, structure really doesn't matter at all."

That explains everything. There's your answer, Mac.

Only in the USA.

Thank god the rest of the world has a better perspective.

I am now finished with this thread and PDB.

Mackenzie

You mean this perspective, Mac?Thankfully her attitude does not include everyone in the USA. And in fact it's not only in the USA, Mac. This thred has people from around the world stating how beneficial the structure you questioned is for the breed....in theory.

BTW, the problem you brought up in this thred originates and is propagated by the sv which happens to be in germany, not the usa.

Xeph's last post reflects a substantial part of reality. That's why I respect her, because she is not caught up in views not supported by reality. Nothing wrong with anything done with our dogs that is productive.

I respect her for what she does with her dogs, however the statement that for work other than for an assistance dog, structure really doesn't matter at all ? My experience in the real world tells something very different, no matter what breed or work required of them.

But that's just me.

Nans: "There is a technique to "teach" these dogs to gate properly, I am sure each and every dog can be taught to gate at any speed you ask them to."
No, Nans, you are able to teach dogs a lot, but the movement is restricted by conformation. I spent countless years of my life with "teaching" dogs to move / trot / gait properly. There are major differences, on leash and off leash, slow and fast.

Different conformational scenarios for a trotter:

Restrictions in the forehand, normal hindquarter angulation ( seen in both lines, but worse in workinglines, as a result the dogs are "wobbling", no ground covering gate ))
Restrictions in fore- and backhand ( mostly workinglines, doesn´t look that bad, but these dogs are slow, they are made for gallop, not for trot )
Restrictions in the backhand, good forequarter angulation ( almost not existant any more, "hopping" dogs )
Overangulated in the back, restricted or normal in the front ( wobbling, roached back, a lot of showline dogs nowadays )
Too long bones in the hindquarters ( mostly combined with overangulation ) = no stability at all
Never saw overangulation in forequarters ( seems to be impossible )

Too much simply is too much, but not enough is not enough, too...

The perfect dog? Fitting to the standard, and willing to work.
Conformationwise better than a lot of the workinglines, but not overdone like a lot of the showlines.

But - a dog "willing to work" even if it´s restricted in angulation/conformation will always be the better working dog than the perfectly built, but unwilling dog ( and a lot of our showlines aren´t perfectly built either - a lot of breeders lost the sense for reality ). At that point the "workingline" fanciers are spot on.

This problem appeared when the German Shepherd dog became "international" - people were and still are impressed by this breed, but they can´t or won´t deal with its temperament. A lot of German breeders learned fast - a good looking dog ( and for a lot of potential buyers a "overdone", "black and red" German Shepherd is a good looking dog ) is more worthful than a good working dog - and once these dogs are sold to other countries the breeders over there don´t even need to care about minor working standards any more.

Big money over here for breeders, handlers, trainers, judges - enough to close the eyes...

and the "second" and "third" generation without proof of working ability is worse for sure... ( and most of them aren´t even "good looking" any more ).

Excellent post, Susie!

Excellent post, as usual, Susie.

Excellent post Susie, the pie of this post

joanro, you realize there are more types of service work than those that take physical stress to their body like a mobility dog, right?

A hearing dog, for example, could be a veritable trainwreck. Doesn't really matter.

But you go ahead and keep making your assumptions and petty little comments