German shepherd 1957 all the GSD experts here watch good - Page 7

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BlackMalinois

by BlackMalinois on 07 January 2016 - 03:01

 


I can find a good malinois.dutchie much faster than a good GSD . If I wanna find
a good mali/dutchie I find him already now. For a GSD takes for me more time

It depends also personal what to think about real quality.


If I wanna sell a GSD   the market  is USA  the most interesting country.
. Holland,Belgium,Germany,France and more realy serious
departments with high standards works most part with malis/dutchies this have nothing to do with $ but with real quality and personal preference from departments.

Most of police military look for real  quality same as I

KNPV today maybe there is 2 percent influence GSD,dobermann,rottweiler.bouvier ,pitbull ,dog blood etc .
The rest from the pedigree is malinois/dutch shepherd and I have seem 100.s
and can show you them I have worked with many myself.

Ask all the people who work wich serious working dogs in real life
in police and military. Not people who only breeding GSD and wanna sell  also Duke breed and sell malinois today.and more GSD breeders do for business that has a reason there is nothing wrong with that.



What I say to discuss as this topic about the breed GSD better do this on a forum with people
who are more objectively.

 


by duke1965 on 07 January 2016 - 16:01

black malinois, I work with police and military worldwide and know you are wrong, you keep referring to KNPV, in KNPV they title some 400 dogs per year in PH 1 , part of these are not sold, part of them are medical not good and/or not good enough for police, so lets say some 250 per year go to police

this is a very low percentage on the worldwide annual demand of policedogs, maybe few percent

furthermore from this low number only again few percent is pedigree malinois, the rest is mixed breeds

the reason I started to breed malinois/MIX is that there are people who, by PERSONAL PREFERENCE want to buy malinois, but again, good ones are hard to find,

now a good dog is different for many people, but im talking about a dog that is medical good, stable caracter, good search,hunt drive, and good civil bitework, not preybiting only, and also no idiot that bites everything coming near him when he is "on "

when you want to talk about GSD like this on a malinois forum you might get more people to agree with you LOL

also police is not buying showline GSD, same as they are not buying showline malinois, so to refer to showline confirmation as a reason why some police prefer malinois over GSD is bullsh+t


by Bavarian Wagon on 07 January 2016 - 17:01

Better to discuss this with people that can use proper grammar...can't really formulate an answer as it's difficult to understand BM's post.

Aakay…selective breeding is due to progression and greater understanding. Yes, it gets skewed by the goal the SV and the judges set but at the end of the day, the breeding decision is on the breeders themselves. The breeders choose what lines they breed in order to achieve their goal. If your goal is Sieger, then you’ll go one way, if your goal is working dogs or sport dogs, you’ll go another way. Germany, the toughest of all countries when it comes to minimum breeding standards…the breeding requirement is still a working title and not a show rating or breed survey. The other countries, you can basically do whatever you want. Anyways, you’re again just taking what the show line breeders do and spreading it to the rest of the breeders when you clearly know that there are plenty of people breeding excellent working GSDs. It’s an internet “try to win the argument” thing…make an extreme statement, don’t mention the fact that there is another side that exists as it would ruin the argument you’re trying to make, and continue on with your day.

So it really doesn’t matter if we talk about living things or inanimate objects. There is always advancement in knowledge and understanding. You hear the same thing about the working dogs of today, that they’re different from what was around 30 years ago. Why? Training methods have changed, dogs are able to do so much more than they did in the past…so the dogs themselves are being bred to better accept and be trained with the better methods? The people complaining about that…the ones that can’t understand the new methods and are getting left behind in regards to sport competition or even working dog training. People will always be more comfortable with what they know, with what they were successful with…and once they’re set in their ways, the new scares them, especially when they realize that they won’t be able to compete with it.

I also want to point out that no one here has provided any REAL evidence that the anatomy of a German Shepherd causes it to be a less effective or less healthy breed than other working breeds or the mighty wolf. BTW…there are show malinois that are as unable to perform real work as many of you claim show line GSD are. There’s less of them, they’re not as highly publicized, and mostly due to the fact that the GSD is the #2 breed in the United States and probably close to #1 in the world while the Malinois is #59 in the United States and hasn’t been around as long you don’t see as many of them around.

by johan77 on 07 January 2016 - 18:01

Last I checked some wolf expert a wolf can move 100km in a single night, but who cares it´s not like a GSDs needs to be able to have better endurance than a wolf. If the changing anatomy of the GSD is due to we know better now it´s strange nature and all other dogs breed for function have missed that point. If the structure of the GSD is superior why is the breed having more problems with the back than the malinois and otehr breeds? Malinois is becoming popular because they are in general a healthy breed.


by Bavarian Wagon on 07 January 2016 - 18:01

Johan...please provide the place where you found a wolf moves 100km in a single night. Most places I've seen is about 30 miles in a day.

I'd also love some definitive information and research about the "more problems with the back than the malinois and other breeds." Please provide actual research and statistics, not just anecdotal evidence that you've read on forums.

Always remember...POPULATION will lead you to believe the GSD has more problems than other breeds. There are many times over more GSD in the world than there are malinois. Of course you'll see more problems. It's like comparing the absolute health statistics of China to a European nation. To add to that, the malinois is still heavily in the hands of working people, the GSD is mostly in the hands of pet people who complain and post all over the internet every time their GSD's fart. A working home doesn't tend to advertise as much about any issues, the dog is just sold and the world keeps turning.

Here's some real statistics from the OFA...GSD 110,075 evaluations for hips, 19% abnormal. Malinois 2,929 evaluations for hips, 5% abnormal. Sure...pretty big difference...but look at the amount of dogs evaluated...evaluate 107,000 more malinois and see what happens to the percentage. For comparison...Labrador Retreiver 239,208 evaluations and 12% abnormal. Rottweiler 95,279 evaluations 20% abnormal.


by Gustav on 07 January 2016 - 19:01

I titled a dog in Sch in 1980 and titled a dog in IPO in 2005. In both cases I trained in club and used the contemporary methods of that time. I trained/handled LE dogs in mid seventies and I have trained LE dog as late as 2014. I wonder if my opinion on differences in now and then would be based on being afraid of change....lol

susie

by susie on 07 January 2016 - 19:01

Bav, I don´t doubt the Malinois breed as a whole is still healthier than the GSD, but this will change soon.
The Malinois became "trendy" during the last years, the same problems will arise ( some already did ).
As soon as "pet people" start to ask for a special breed, things become difficult - and they already started to ask.
Why? Because the Malinois became the policedog no1, and everybody wants to own the "modern" RinTinTin.
Breeder will breed, and buyers will buy.

About Duke´s post: I tried to tell people several times on this forum, that German police doesn´t pay good for dogs, and that private people of foreign countries ( no1: still the USA ) are willing to pay much more. Why should any owner of a good dog ( more or less, a dog is always sold because of problems of any kind ) sell his dog to German police? Sometimes it´s about the difference of $ 4000...
At this amount of money the seller doesn´t care about his country any more... and it´s easy to believe that the dog will feel better in a "normal" environment than in a police dog kennel.

by Ibrahim on 13 January 2016 - 22:01

bump





 


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