Comparing show and Working line prices - Page 3

Gee,

As per your website, you won't take any deposits, but will allow me as a potential buyer to register through email. You will also inform me after the puppies are born, but before you start advertising.

So, as you start the actual selling only AFTER the puppies are born, how quickly the puppies get sold out? I mean, within how many days after receiving the information of whelping I'll have to confirm the purchase by depositing the amount, to be able to get a pup? Do I have to pay in full?

I understand that I'll be allowed to take the pup only after he's 8 weeks old.

Hund I'm not say title is worthless I'm saying it is for money making a lot of dogs make ipo but on the outside of a training field wouldn't confront a good meal . I am not say all if seen good dog. Same can b said about papers and scores worth noting because the judgement system is very corrupted every one knows that but again not every competition . People get good names or bad names from breeding and owning dog news travels fast .And that why papers and titles mean very little when buying a pup .Your repos what sell a pup

 

Assuming the buyer knows what they are looking for - there are a whole host off observations they can make. Whether that is to determine a sleeve happy dog or an un balanced basket case.

@Swarendu:
Basically because I breed once a year, there are typically people who are waiting for a pup. For instance currently that stands at six vetted inquiries, for the next litter.

Now depending on how long they have been waiting will dictate whether that initial inquiry will go through to collection of the pup. (Understandably so, there are other litters out there)

Just to clarify when someone sends an email re reserving a pup, the following happens:
They are asked for there home telephone number, address, experience, there living set up, family situation etc etc. Assuming everything looks ok, we will have a few telephone conversations.

But to answer your question - using my next litter as an example, I would anticipate all pups with full deposits on them by one week old. That deposit is contractual and non refundable, however - if the pup dies / gets injured etc,  whilst with me - then all monies are returned to the buyer.

R
Gee

 

I don't see your kennel listed under Darkvakia in the PDB. Are you circumventing the ads and TOS by inserting your kennel url or signature link in your posts? I see you do that often enough. This does sound like self promotion to me, but I don't make that call. 

 

From PDB TOS:

11. advertise or spam in any post; this includes signature links

Rarely have I used a URL, I did a couple of posts ago - purely for transparency reasons.

Not fair to ask what BV kennels website is, if I don't give him mines - everything I do is transparent.

Think you will find though - that most people on this forum come across my kennel via the WORKING vids I post of my own training and dogs.

 

Remmember it is a working dog forum - that means people who train, occassionaly might choose to share there working dogs training.

You should try it some time.

Like I keep saying - everything I do is transparent.

R
Gee

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/community.search?f=&s=Www.darkvakia

And yet you won't be listed as a kennel on this site. Yep, transparent as mud.

I would call that completely transparent, I am not hiding behind anything.
If / when any one asks about my dogs/training they are told.

If you want to call that mud, then fine.

I think it's probably time to take another nap Beetree, then when you wake up you can groom your dog.

R
Gee

Why does my kennel matter? I didn't call out your kennel at all, I really don't care about your kennel or what you charge. Everyone can charge whatever they want, and if they’re getting it, I’m more than happy for them. But IN THE UNITED STATES, when breeders like yourself decide to charge $1500+ for a puppy out of untitled parents, it’s just a normal market adjustment for those of us that do title to charge more than that. The majority of American buyers will go off price more than anything to try to figure out the quality of the breeding, they don’t know what titles are, they really don’t care, but the majority also don’t have the ability to “test” the parents either so that is also a huge waste of a marketing gimmick.

I’m a helper, and you just won’t BS me. Nothing I do in a 5 minute session with your dog in bite work will tell me that much about your dog, assuming you have decent dogs and not nerve bags. TONS of dogs have no issue barking and biting on their “home training field.” Sleeve focus or man focus? I don’t care at all. It’s all training, no matter how many times you try to convince the people on this forum that have never done a day of bite work otherwise. Want to know what does tell you something? Seeing a dog time and time again on a high level competing. Seeing a dog’s obedience and tracking hold up on different fields. I’ve watched tons of videos of amazing heeling, amazing retrieves, super fast motions, and yet those dogs don’t ever seem to show up at any larger trial…wonder why that is? Protection…test the dog on various helpers, strange field, different environment. Dog can prove it’s worth, it’s nerve strength, get objectively judged against it’s peers. I can see the dog title, I can see the performance, I can judge the score for myself. Time and time again, a consistent dog will prove it’s value. Much better than a 5 minute session in your back yard.

It’s funny how those that don’t title their dogs, and produce “real working dogs” are always the first to get defensive and go on the attack to try to drag others through the mud. They need to compare themselves to others in order to justify what they’re doing and what they’re charging. Those of us that title, don’t seem to care much. We know we’ve done the leg work and don’t need to convince others that what we’re doing is justified.

We’re in two completely different markets. I highly doubt anyone sane in the United States would purchase a dog from you. Your puppy would run someone $2500 if not more in the United States. Puppies out of the world champion don’t run that here. I doubt I’ll ever ship a puppy to Europe as it’s much easier to go to Germany or any of the other countries to get a similar dog for a much cheaper price. But it also doesn’t matter to me. All my puppies sell, go to good homes, and have so far had no issues doing the work they’ve been asked to do.

@BW

If you really think that asking a dog to perform the same routine on different fields with different helpers even comes close to serious stress - you are having a laugh.

Your bull shit won't work on me - if I use your turn off phrase.

Basically - getting an experienced dog to fire up on a sleeve - on any field with different helpers - is not difficult, sure some will lose points because they are not as capable as others, that's a given. (but sleeve happy average dogs will do that)

Just to clarify - I am not saying a titled dog can't cut it for real, that would be bull shit.

However I am saying just because a dog is titled - does not mean it is even in the ball park when it comes to credible protection.

This does make me laugh, because only last week you were talking about judging the parents of a pup - in front off you. (Mithunas post re reversed mask)

If you think for a split second - just because a dog is titled, it would pass EVEN a suitability test for credible protection training - wow.

Gee

Being from England, I'd expect better reading comprehension from you.
I stated SEEING THE DOG TITLE tells you more. Just a title, doesn't tell you much. But yes...a passing score, on a national level, under a tough judge, will tell you enough about the dog without having to see the performance.

You're so focused on the protection (not surprising seeing as what you’re selling). Protection is the EASIEST phase. Put the pressure on the dog necessary to get high tracking scores and high obedience scores, and only a good dog will be able to come out and do protection at a high level. That PPD and back yard biting without any control or any expectation of obedience doesn’t say anything to me. Tons of dogs will do that. Look at your training objectively, just like any objective IPO person will and you’ll probably admit to yourself that the dogs don’t actually ever get tested on anyone but your own helper and on your own training grounds. You probably have ZERO proof that the dog would ACTUALLY protect you as you’ve more than likely never been in a situation where it has had to do so. After seeing your home/kennel pictures on your website…I highly doubt that there’s any danger where you live apart from the rogue sheep or two.

BTW…I also know that most “personal protection” is BS. 99% of people will never be in a situation where their dog needs to protect them. For most people, A GSD walking next to them is enough deterrent to keep any criminal activity away from them. I have 5 German Shepherds in my house, only an idiot would break into my house…trained or untrained. I’m glad you’ve been able to convince 20 or so people that they need a protection dog and play around with their dog in your back yard to show them the dog will bite and fight, but to me, I know exactly what it shows. The best part about IPO titles is that I don’t have to attack and demean other people’s dogs and kennels in order to make myself seem equal or worthy of someone’s business. I’ve got proof, I’ve got video, I’ve got scores listed on public databases.

I also just don’t care what you do or what you breed. My initial statement just said that people like you are the reason those of us that put in the time and effort to title our dogs charge more for our dogs. It doesn’t matter that we do, but that’s why we do it. I charge more than you do for a puppy, all the puppies have so far sold without issue. I can probably charge more if I wanted to, and the next litter will probably be more expensive just to keep up with the market and not short myself of any possible revenue. I don’t think a puppy should cost as much as that. I would love for the US market to adjust down to what the German market is, but it can’t and won’t. We have more resources, we have more options, and there is much less information available to those not “in” the breed. I personally see a ton of problems with the pricing of the US GSD market, and I will openly talk about it. Unfortunately, can’t change it by myself and I’d probably cost myself great homes if I were to try to do it alone.