Line breeding on Tom Vant leeffdaahof - Page 7

I would tend to believe that a lot of it has to do the same as a kid. When you have good genetics, nd I am no expert on training but if you sit down with your kid and read every night, do some simple math etc from an early age your kid will be smarter than the parent who puts no effort or attention and love into their kids. My son was reading before he got to kindergarten, could do 3 step addition and subtraction and was working on multiolication tables at 5. Granted he has a smart mother. His athletic side comes from me lol

A good example of this would be Ben Carson though. Mom put effort in and he absorned it and went from good to presidential candidate

I've never heard anyone in sport claim that any sport dog could easily be a patrol dog, and many of the trainers and people I've learned from started off training police dogs/were mentored by police dog trainers/ or are still working police dogs.

It's weird there is so much us vs them online when comparing police dogs to sport dogs when what I have experienced in a training environment is pretty opposite, the police dog people and sport people work together to get dogs trained. Its been really interesting changing from being in the sport world to real world working, each have different challenges though I would not definitely not say one is easier than the other. But that is just my newbie observation

Still would love to hear some more input from those experienced with lines on Tom's influence as I think many of us have dogs that have Tom somewhere along the lines.

Susie:
The GSD was never ment to be an "LE" dog, but an active, universal working and companion dog.
PragerHans :
Versatility of the breed was and still shoud be of paramount importance and police work should reflect such PART of such versatility. von Stephanitz began giving the best of his litters to local police forces, where the dogs triumphed: they were athletic, attentive and intelligent, everything von Stephanitz had promised. Now GSDs should not be specifically just police dogs but they should be able to be police dogs. As a matter of fact, the breed in it's early days was called German Police dog. Stephanitz started with Herding purpose of the breed but soon realized that he needs a broader interest in the breed and that interest was guard and police type work. That is reflected in Schutzhund where police type work is being evaluated which as you may know are: Obedience, protection, and tracking. Also, Stephanitz eliminated white color of GSD and as an argument, he used that white color is not good for police dogs. Thus GSD WAS meant to be police dogs but not just police dog.

Astrovan you are misquoting what duke1965 said and then you disagree with your own misquote. Duke said:" "..........we had a discussion about this recently with some top sport guys, and most of them( one was second at one of last WUSV ) all where under the impression that you can take any dog from WUSV, and take it to the street" and he did not say that: "any sport dog could easily be a patrol dog,"

Thanks Astrovan, for steering this thread back to the topic - dogs with Tom in them.

I dont know how much direct influence Tom has on my dog, as he is his great grandfather, with Vito being his grandfather, plus he is linebred on Ernst and Fenja vom Haus Pixner (4,5 on both), plus he has some strong dogs on his mother's side too up close - Astel vom Ecke (grandfather), Hektor vom Talka Marda, and Sid vom Haus Pixner (great grandfathers). Given this background he has good prey (not over the top), has a civil side to him, neutral to other dogs unless they are aggressive then all bets are off, very aloof to strangers, environmentally very sound - no issues with loud noises, strange objects, dark places, or slippery floors, can get crazy and drive you nuts if not worked but if worked regularly then he has an off switch - so when I travel my wife has to let him out in our yard quite a bit and he can run back and forth non stop for quite some time. He is fast, physically very strong, bites are very powerful (leaves bruises through the suit), has problems with the out - getting better, has a tendency to focus on the decoy and not on equipment. Black sable, good hips and elbows. His obedience is not flashy and prancing and has a silent guard - which is strange as at home he can be quite vocal.

Hopefully, now we can stay on topic and hear from other folks with Tom dogs.

Astrovan you have hit on THE main problem of sport versus LE/PP issue.

You have said: "It's weird there is so much us vs them online when comparing police dogs to sport dogs when what I have experienced in a training environment is pretty opposite, the police dog people and sport people work together to get dogs trained. Its been really interesting changing from being in the sport world to real world working, each have different challenges though I would not definitely not say one is easier than the other."

 

Hans: Changing dogs from sport to police leads to serious problems. I call such training from spot to police or use sport training methods to train police dogs  "SPORTISM" . Even though this type of training is a major such approach for LE training these days it is flawed and it leaves a the final product -LE dog or pp dog with baggage which will burden many LE/PP dogs for rest of their life. IMO and experience it is better to train a dog from get-go as a PP or LE dog and not first as a sport dog and changing such dog to LE/PP dog.   

 

i had a 2-3 linebred on Tom great female in some ways biggest problem she was fighter with almost all other females high drive excellent retrieve instincts

1000 dogs with tom in 3th or 4th generation, 1000 different dogs, 1000 different opinions

I agree very bad decoying. The decoy was not effectively reading the dog and acknowledging the dogs small acts of aggression. The handler even worst.

with a 3-5 i would not be too worried about anything, but keep eyes open for high dog agggresion, missing teeth, and cork screw tails, many a good temperament came out of Tom L. to me hes famous for producing somewhat of his likeness, some studs seems to have a hard time producing their likeness, Ellute for example is a well known stud out of Tom that is in many great dogs working pedigrees, i used to a have a 2-3 on ellute she wasnt perfect but a great dog in many ways. I have a 2-3 on Tom in the ped of some pups in an up coming litter.