Asking for help with Pedigree Questions and others - Page 2

this is probably not what the OP wanted or expected to hear.

but this dog has no health checks or proofing for several generations and absolutely no reason to breed other than to give the son the experience of having a litter and maybe banking a little cash. Rescues and shelters all across the U.S. are full of GSD with much better backgrounds than this. and most will end up put down.

Hello...

I know you think the world of your dog and you should...She is beautiful...

PDB is a group of like minded people who what to help others with questions they might have about their dog or it's pedigree...It's also a good place to ask questions and get some good information...Sometimes it's not what you want to hear but we try to look from the outside...I'm sure you understand this being a horse person...

Just because a dog is a good companion doesn't mean they're a good prospect for breeding...Maybe you could turn her into a good dog for helping others...

I applaud you for taking such good care of your dog and wanting the best and also for asking questions before you breed her...In the end it's your choice whether or not you breed her...but you should always breed with the hope of bettering the breed and not just adding more puppies in the world...What is your purpose for wanting to breed her...I mean are you looking to produce Working Police dogs...or Dogs for Sport (Schutzhund...etc.)...Special Needs dogs...all of which would require testing for Hips/Elbows/Spine...etc...
If your interested in breeding I would suggest getting a good dog with all the desired traits and then hopefully everything turns out for the good...

Please let us know more about what your thoughts are and if we can help with anything else...We'd love to hear more from you...

~Bob~

All who replied, Thank you for looking at Rocksy's Pedigree and giving your feedback. I learned a lot just from your replies. I appreciate your input!

I didn't see that there was a second page, and there are a few more comments that I didn't notice.

So, yes, this is NOT what I wanted to hear about Rocksy. But I do understand. We have a friend who is very educated on Quarter Horses and she thinks exactly the same. Great breeding, that results in horses that should possess the great traits from the previous lines. And with strategic breeding, you can hopefully bring out the specific traits you want for the dogs. I cannot disagree with this thinking.

As I read the replies, I think the breeders we got her from (who had both the sire and dam) were pet breeders. They were very friendly people who had several litters of great dogs. To be honest, I filled in their dogs information (and 2-4 lines back depending on the branch) from the information from the AKC pedigree on this website. I went until names started popping up automatically on the site. I don't know if there is any more prudent information they have for their dogs or their parents. I am fairly sure that their dogs are pets and they don't show or produce for any specific purpose (search and rescue or K9).

Q Man: You asked why we want to breed her, here are the reasons:
1. My son who is an absolute animal lover is VERY interested in the veterinary practice - small animals (doesn't help us much with the horses...). This would be very educational and a great experience.
2. She is absolutely phenomenal on the trail. She keeps track of all of us on the trail, tirelessly. And it has been noted by other riders.
3. She is very loyal (common trait for German Shepherds), especially to my wife and kids.
4. Will be a great 4H project
5. I have looked at the prices on this website for GSD puppies along with other sites. A lot of the dogs are priced higher than I paid for my most expensive horse - and I only bought him because he was my best friends horse (my best friend passed away, so when his widow offered we didn't hesitate - and he is a good horse). I, like a lot of others, cannot afford to pay thousands of dollars for a dog. But we still want some reassurance that we are getting a good puppy. I know, the reply to that might be: "Then don't get one." But that would be kind of an elitists reply. So offering a registered German Shepherd puppy at a more affordable price just might make a long time dream come true for someone.

That all being said, I do understand all of the points made on here. Breeding top notch GSDs is a noble practice. But I want to tell about one of our other horses:

She is a Morgan mix (we think). We normally don't have anything other than quarter horses - personal preference. We picked her up at a very low cost - we say we rescued her from where she was. She is blind in 1 eye and she has a disease called Cushings that we give her medicine for every day. No pedigree, no idea of what she is mixed with. But if she was younger, we would breed her given the opportunity. WHY YOU ASK? My 7 year old daughter rides her and has for over 2 years - by herself. She loves her horse and the horse takes care of her on the trails. We ride in the Shawnee Forest where the trails can be challenging. I would trust this horse with ANYBODY on her. Papers can tell you what to expect but this horse is proven, even with her issues. And we would take another just like her!

dfearday, I understand the temptation, I really do! I have rescued several GSDs, and one of them, an intact male, was the most wonderful dog! He had a rock-solid temperament, and I could take him anywhere. He became my hearing ear service dog, and I was amazed by how quickly he picked up the tasks I needed to train him for. I only needed to repeat a task with him 3 times, and he had it down pat! (If you don't know how smart some GSDs are, you'll think I'm bragging. If you DO know, you'll know I'm not...)

I was living alone, after my husband passed, and he was a great protector, too. He had a dark, scary-looking face, and would bark very loudly if someone came to the house. Once I let them in, though, he'd be shoving his favourite toy into their laps within about 5 minutes!

Yet, I had him neutered. Okay, he developed prostate problems, so it was strongly recommended by the vet, but still, I would not have bred him.

A friend had 2 registered German shepherds, both with good temperaments, although the female wasn't titled. She bred them, and they had 5 puppies.

She wound up having to practically GIVE most of the pups away.

So, don't assume just because your female is registered that it will be easy to find homes for the pups! There are a LOT of purebred, registered dogs in the pound!

dfearday
don't take asked and paid prices as indicator of quality of dogs in question. its mainly money for the name or status of dogs, with intention to quickly recoup it by utilizing those name or status in breeding and selling results of that breeding. unfortunately GSD today is just a pure commerce enterprise.
as for your initial question - even leaving alone for what useful purpose planned such breeding, think for moment - what consequences and cost possibly might face future owners with the dogs, whose genetic predisposition in regard of health is unknown, even if you would gave pups to them for free?

Without knowing the hip, elbow. spine status of her, or those that came before her, or the same for a male, the risk of producing a litter with much dysplasia, spine problems is very high, is it moral to breed her not knowing this? What if half the puppies develop it and suffer for years on end?

Has ave any of them been checked for DM, or any of the other genetic condidions concerning the breed we love? Again, if she is a carrier and the male who is too, then 25% would be at high risk of developing horrible desieses. 

As responsible breeders we do everything we can to produce healthy puppies.

What Sitasmom just wrote is very true; plus, have you thought what you are going to do if she is bred and then produces a large litter ? You may have enough friends you know will take 4 pups; but what about 8, or 12 ? You do need to consider these sort of questions. You might say you'd breed your horse with Cushings Disease - but that is not perhaps going to be passed to her foal. With Hip Dysplasia you might be talking about condemning half a dozen pups to a lifetime of lameness, or their owners to great expense and upset - and would you really want to be responsible for that ?

If anyone cannot afford market prices for a pup, as has been pointed out, there are plenty in Shelters; and if you cannot afford to pay for a pup, can you afford the vets' bills that might result from breeding her ? For the sort of things that can ensue, there is another thred running currently that I strongly advise you read: "HELP Advice on whelping very high energy female". (Yours does not need to be 'high energy' for most of that topic to apply). Maybe your son should also read it.

I'm sorry, but wanting your son to see a litter born because he has interest in veterinary medicine is NOT a good reason to breed, and is right up there with 'we wanted our kids to see the miracle of birth' excuse. If your son wants to find out a bit more about veterinary medicine, then have him volunteer at the local SPCA hospital, a local vet practice, etc. I have volunteered at the SPCA hospital, and worked at a vet practice - I saw everything from patient intake to surgery.

I had a very nice GSD that I adopted from a rescue agency, from world-class working lines, and there are MANY other very nice GSDs waiting for adoption - many of those from 'pet breeders' just like you would be. If you do breed her, do you have the resources and space to take back any puppies that find themselves unwanted by their purchaser, never mind not bought in the first place? A GOOD breeder will take back ANY of the pups they bred, for ANY reason, if that pup finds itself unwanted by the purchaser. After all, you brought those pups into the world - they are not in control of their destiny and should not be punished by being dumped in a shelter just because someone changed their mind.

I'm going to be a little blunt. most here try to be helpful and understanding to new comers as we all were there once.

I do think several have tried to do so in as inoffensive way as possible.

but every once in a while there comes along a newcomer with already all the answers which makes me wonder, why ask in the first place?

you can't afford a breed worthy dog, apparently can't afford the health certs considered minimum for good breeding of the GSD.

a 4 h project when there are literally 10's of thousands of dogs in kill shelters, what a great idea. breed a horse, at least it will be only 1 added to the population.

my niece and nephew have done a pig several times. the end result is the same as for a high percentage of poorly bred dogs, the pig just gets eaten.