Need help with dangerous situation - Page 2

Wow. Ok disagree with hired hand completely. Go back and look up operating conditioning.  Dog will never be thrown for a loop to bite. Conditioned for food reward and when withheld dog will beg and pester for it. Keeps nerves down and situation calm. The answer to your question hired hand is dog will sniff hand all over looking for the treat and then he'll check the other hand just like he's been taught.

Taking dogs to someone for evaluation is a mixed bag.  I have found it to not be beneficial and I prefer to see the dogs doing the problem behavior. I can't read what I can't see.

The alternate , alert strategy I would teach is to come get me. Either bark at door or more ideally especially in the beginning is to return to you. Btw tugging with you is ok for mal, just not with anyone else.  And could be used during that training if food drive isn't high enough.  Teach border slowly changing one tiny thing at a time. Teach him to sit for food reward. Important that you teach him to stop.  He'll never think when running. You can't do math at recess and neither can he learn while running. First step is to teach the solid sit. Many times a down is used but that's very hard for fearful dogs to do.  Good things you can start on till u find the right trainer.

Can't offer much beyond agreeing that the collie is fearful, & her mal buddy is protecting her. Really, this behavior is what these dogs are bred to do ( mals), protect their family, including the other pets. She couldn't save the collie from the attacking garbage truck, but by golly she's going to save her now. And the poor collie is scared out of her wits that she'll be chomped on again. Poor sweet dogs, they are taking matters into their own paws. And suddenly everyone is suspect. I know you're probably not there 24/7; but if you can stop the collie when the spinning starts, redirect her to focus on you, & maybe use frisbee as a reward for holding her focus until the abscense of threat becomes apparent to her-she calms down-I think this will solve the issues for both dogs. Maybe get her a crate to go to for a safe place when you're not home. Obviously they can't  be out unrestrained together until the fence is up, but I think this is going to be a long, slow process of reconditioning your collie to try to lessen that fear. It's tough, when they feel safe & secure & something shatters that confidence, it takes a long time to restore that trust. Good luck. Also I wouldn't use training techniques that include punishing that behavior, you'll just reinforce her fear with more pain. In this case, I'd use strictly positive reinforcement for the collie. And maybe a firm no if you catch the mal in the sneaking up stage of attack, but my guess is the the mals attacks will stop once the collie no longer cries for help! Again, good luck, & God bless.

jackie harris

Bzcz, i have seen what happens when there is no food to offer and someone just reaches out to pat the dog, they get bitten.
OP, you do what you believe you need to, a nervous/fearful dog will bite.

"Bzcz, i have seen what happens when there is no food to offer and someone just reaches out to pat the dog, they get bitten."
Yes- I strongly agree with Hired Dog.

Laura271 then the training was done wrong. Period. Correctly done, operating conditioning works and in over 20 years of dog training I have never had it fail.

If the dog is conditioned to look for food, and the first hand doesn't have any, why would the dog bite? Correct conditioning would have him concentrating on the other hand.  Not to mention the other purpose of the conditioning is to take the dog out of defense drive and put him into a submissive food drive. 

Is it possible you've seen it conditioned wrong?  That's my bet.  I've had it work every time when,(here's the key), it's tailored correctly to the dog we are working with.  In the dog you saw, was he conditioned to check both hands? Was he conditioned to approach in the correct t drive?  If he is what you claim can't happen.

As with a 'll things, the skill of the trainer is critical.  Anything can be done wrong.  Done right it works.  Every time.

 

I really think, that you need a "real" fence, if you don´t want to superwise your dogs all the time, because one day there will fly a ball into your yard, with at least one child running over to get it back... that´s like waiting for real trouble.
Otherwise I really think BZCZ is right - a dog waiting for a treat is no immediate danger any more. At least it´s worth a try - I´d do it.
Something else - I train with all my dogs an immediate "down" command they have to follow whatever happens, kind of an emergency-stop, helped several times during my life
 

Why would he bite? Because the dog has bad nerves.

The boarder is traumatized. Genetic nerves are a back seat issue. If the boarder never got run over this panic and rescue scene  by the Mal would not be happening. 

There is some good and also some better advice here. I commend the OP on being thorough, open-minded and having the right priorities with regard to safety of family and friends.

Guys, couldn't the OP get a kennel run setup with a lock only him and his wife could open up (not even the kids allowed access) only until the fence could be setup? It sounds like the OP would have to fence a lot of yard and said it would be in June that it could happen.

Bee, as I alluded in another post, its his genetic nerves that will determine his rate of recovery, if any.