Need help with dangerous situation - Page 3

My hound pups after a year of effort will not tolerate touch from another person or dog. can't change genetics and that incident may have just triggered the dogs genetics.

HD everything on the planet can not be explained away by nerve problems.


the rustic dogs had a survival advantage by avoidance behavior and it is not necessarily a nerve problem, don't be so narrow.

No VK4, actually, genetics will determine everything in life, FIRST, then environment, so being narrow, I am not. A dog cannot conceptualize events the way you and I can and the strength and weakness of its genetic nerve will determine how it views and deals and copes with the world.

Since you cannot change genetics, you need to be careful in your selection of dogs and what you expose and expect out these dogs, I know I do.

So we agree? to clarify not every behavior is a symptom of poor nerve strength unless you think a police type dog is the way every dog should be and if they are not it is a nerve issue, simply not true. imo.

Do border collies/collies have nerve issues? I have always considered borders as excitable, but super smart & demanding.....I have no experience with collies at all. I would think that re-establishing trust would be fairly challenging. The border I worked with was a real challenge to achieve any kind of focus with, but if I had a frisbee, I had his attention. The op stated his border cross is also a frisbee fanatic, hence my suggestion. Stop the spinning/crying every time with a sit or down until the dog is calmer & reward immediately with frisbee play, turning negative into positive without rewarding the frantic behavior. I think once you control & refocus the border the mal will no longer need to defend her. And yes, build the fence. It defends your dogs the way no electric fence can. In the mean time keep them inside more, out on leashes, etc.. After all, it's only until the fence goes up, & gives you a chance to work with them more closely during the wait. Good luck!

jackie harris

Jackie, yes BCs can have 'nerve issues'.  I have come across some

collies from both pet and working lineages which have been snivelling

cringing cowards around anything they did not understand or were

not used to.  I have also met those who were sneaky biters,  where

their herding instinct is misused because they were nerve-bags.

Well, when I say 'met' I mean bitten by !  Back of the leg ...

 

Fortunately the vast majoriity of Border Collies are lovely dogs

with good temperaments.   Although a 'Shepherdite'  this subject

is close to my heart because I started with Border Collies;  and have

known a good number of them through their abundance on the Ob.

Circuit when I used to work my GSD bitch Vida.

VK4, no, not every behavior is a nerve issue, I agree with you on this, however, like I said before, nerves, at a fundamental level, determine a dog's view on life as it were.

If you mean by "police type dog" a dog that is secure, truly secure, then so be it, but, this nerve issue can get deep and detailed and cannot get covered in here properly. I have seen Malinois that were tremendous dogs working the street, you would stand back and watch in awe at their ability, yet, when at home, if you crinkled up a piece of aluminum foil, the same dog would shit itself, literally...nerve issue or not VK?

One of the toughest dogs I have ever seen work the street years a go surpised me. He would put such aggression and such dedication into biting the helper, it was truly something to behold. I mean this dog would literally completely dominate a helper or suspect and had many street bites to his credit. Yet, in my eye, something was not right and I asked the handler who, to his credit, told me that the dog was like this because he HATED to be touched by the helper/suspect in ANY way...no hitting or touching or wrestling this dog, he put all that effort into his bite work so he would not have to deal with being hit or touched...nerve issue or not VK?

Mal ^ my guess not a nerve issue, precisely my point. but it COULD be one.

i just don't like the trend to reduce about every problem to a nerve issue .....if it was that simple.

Hired dog, I'll bite,lol.  Hated meaning what exactly?  If it made him more dominate and aggressive, how is this a nerve issue and not a countering behavior?  Nerves are not a direct correlation to behavior.  They are often a multfactorial matrix of overlapping stimulus and perceptions by the animal, which makes counter conditioning them a challenge for the trainer.  How did this dog display his hatred of being touched?  Who decided it was hatred and why that term?

Mulifunctional matrix.......I'm out.

"...a multifactorial matrix of overlapping stimulous and perceptions..." .....dazzle them with brilliance and baffle them with BS. Lol.