KNPV Video(s) - Page 21

Facts from  people with knowledge from real  dogs says me more  not that  IPO people  which  robot program is useless
and destroying the breed.  this people have never certified any KNPV dog ,  and I,m sure most of this people can,t handle this dogs. too.

Time will talking and we see what happened same  like the the  GSD

 Rottweiler,Bouvier,Dobermann the next will be the GSD  useless as a working dog. as we talking about marketing, promotion
and MONEY !!!

I like the GSD as a workingdog have seen many good  dogs in the KNPV over the years I  hope this breeders will  survive.















 

You bet Black Malinois is missing the point, MikeD !

There may be some subtleties missing in translation
(from Dutch ?),  but basically he now seems to be arguing
that only Belgian & Dutch Shepherds, specifically Malinois or
mixes, have real abilities to do Police work.  But that any GSDs
who do Police work, or compete successfully in either KNPV
or IPO / other 'standardized sports', have to be "dark sables"
or they cannot 'cut it'.  I don't know whether this has anything
to do with his "BLACK" Mali username [!?]  but I can assure him
I have met dogs out of the Tierkerhook kennel that, while sables,
 were far from all that 'dark'.  

How many times do we need to say it:  the colour of the dog is
NOT what makes it a good or an indifferent working animal.
It may be incidental to their lineage, in those bred consistently to
produce for KNPV  (or other tests);  but it does not make them
better at it.

I know operational Police GSDs here in England who are all kinds
of colours, but do the job more than satisfactorarily.  Some have bravery
awards to prove it !   And no, as I keep pointing out, most Police dogs in
the UK are NOT Malinois (or DS/Mali mixes).

I don't know anything about KNPV either, but I do know about GSDs
generally, especially throughout Europe,  and to suggest as he does
that ONLY KNPV participants can have any opinion on these issues
is completely nonsensical - I'd take anything Susie posts with a great
deal more seriousness than I would take anything written by this new
poster, whatever 'rules' he thinks he can impose on debate !

Perhaps he should just stick to rehearsing the bloodlines of dogs he
knows to have been bred specifically for KNPV, which is where he
came in.

GSD will survive, but we have to worry more if KNPV will survive, membership dropping dramaticly and only some 400 dogs certify per year for PH1 which really doesnot mean that much in percentage in the law enforcement world  worldwide, also the amount of dogs certifieing is dropping, furthermore the average age in KNPV members is old

now about breeding GSD, anybody can bring any crappy bitch to Caro, Kato and Hank to name a few but that will not guarantee you that the pup will be anything like daddy, first of all it is not in the superior traininghands like his daddy and secondly and most important with the level of outcrossing in todays dogs the change to get a similair gene package like daddy will be 1 in a  zillion

and Mike is right and reading the posts better than others, nothing wrong with KNPV as a sport and some very good dogs and breeders there, like in any other sport, but not every KNPV titled dog is super, same as not every WUSV or BSP or every DDR dog is superdog

other than that KNPV should make some changes in the program towards the future , to name one they should stop making the decoy shoot a gun but start to train that the handler is shooting at the suspect and the dog being gun neutral instead of gun agressive, this current system gives quite a few problems where KNPV trained policedogs respond agressively towards police officers shooting or even pointing a gun at a suspect .

 

I thought we were talking KNPV GSDs, not the qualities of the unregistred KNPV-lines or that KNPV is a bad program in itself. It seems similar to all sports according to BM that even the dogs in the championship is necessarily not the best dogs, this goes for IPO and all sports I suppose, some championship dogs are more impressive than others, the handlers ability to train a stronger type of dog is also a  factor of how many points a dog gets in competitions. I still thinks the few KNPV GSDs that are real good not only as individuals but also for breeding you still will see many more dogs of the same quality or better if we look at all GSDs available in the rest of the world just by the fact the numbers are much greater. But I wouldn´t mind if KNPV was the sport of choice instead of IPO in germany, but as duke said, the problem is more to keep the younger generation intressted in dogsports in general,KNPV or other programs,,the best program in the world is useless if it die a slow death on it´s own.

Membership  is less in the  whole dogsport also IPO ,NBG , VDH etc, I have seen many  new young helpers in KNPV starting 15 / 16 years old Duke look around
and yes also  many grey people but I see that everywhere.

Yes it,s true Lubeck,Caro,Edo , Nick etc  can make a litter with every crappy bitch  but I know breeders who only selecting or have there own
bitches in kennel with proven bloodlines this people you don,t see in the public  media like Caro,Nick,Lubeck,Vegas etc....
Other true point is  the  good handler experience  they don,t bring this to the new pup  owners like Frank Stommels the Verbruggen brothers , Rob Cordong ,
Jan Reker etc.

Best GSD  at this moment in   KNPV personal  is Collin v/d Hornhutte  owner Arie van Eyck  also a very experience  handler.
But also  there are many more unknown GSD / handlers they are not  member of the facebook and youtube hyping dogs.

An other point a lot of KNPV pup owner in and outside  Holland  looking for the names and  never have seen this dogs
for real training personal I don,t wanna do this, same  now with Hans Pegge ,  Big Roy all the sheeps are waiting for a litter.


But this is what also happened  with the IPO males for many years. NAMES.....

and how many KNPV titled dogs are on colin hornhutte his pedigree ???

Blind Faith was good as a rock band, but is a disaster in the dog world. I constantly hear the cliche " a good dog is a good dog and can come from anywhere" being bandied about by people who never practice this in real life. Over my few years in working dogs, the only institutions that really practice this belief has been law enforcement and military. They can only afford, and are only looking for performing dogs in 95% of times as often people's lives depend on the partnership. They don't care what the background, bloodlines, or color of the dog, ( unlike many of the pseudo experts ) posting about police/military dogs. GS in Police/military world today often look as much BYB as they do KK1. I seldom see a " pretty" GS working police anymore, least not enough to factually say it's a requirement for "work". In other words, in police/military procurement, the main bloodline and breed survey is whether the dog can work and has good health;  ....color, angulation, national origin, points, or even breed mean little to them unlike many posters hear who wouldn't have the dog they have now unless it has the color, points, or bloodline that they can show off and write on Internet forums about. The primary LE/military dogs ( except Scandinavian countries) you see today are Mals, Various sable GS, and some all blacks or bicolors. Next ten time you see an event on TV that requires a military/LE dog deployed, take notice of what it looks like.....9 out of 10 times it will be Mal or sable GS. The point is there is a reason for all the various lines and colors and types not frequently being used by the police/military abundantly, ...and it is not because they don't " like" that type. There's a reason there are not many successful GS that participate in KNPV or that there are not many GS at highest levels of PSA......Blind Faith was a good rock band!

One last thing than back to lurking on this, one of the reasons you see so many Black and Tan in KNPV is that many of their dogs go through Mink, Haus Ming, Falko vom haus Sindern, Pike, Rick v Tiekerhook , Huseucke(sp), Datsy , etc. jmo.

BlackMalinois, don´t read this, it´s again Susie, the lady, who doesn´t know anything about dogs...

" Blind Faith was a good rock band! " - Yes, it was...Eric Clapton, Steve Winwood...

There still is a difference between working and breeding, Gustav.
As long as I "only" want to own a real good working dog, I don´t need to care about structure ( not mentioning "color" at this point, this discussion is ridiculous ).
As soon as I want to breed German Shepherds, I have to care about structure, too.
That said as a breeder I need to look for the best working prospect with the best structure ( health should be clear ).
I´m no breeder, for me it´s easy, I always pick the dog I like.

We, the Germans, made a lot of mistakes, like
breeding only for
color
size
over - angulations
gait
On the other hand
breeding only for immense prey drive
neglecting structure
All of this out of one reason - money. Two lines were created, both of them with faults, but the buyers did buy for a lot of money and the breeders did breed - still not all of them, but a lot of. During the last years people stated to learn, several changed their breeding practice.

Today it´s the Malinois reaching this point, the breed already is separated into show- and working lines.
KNPV in the Netherlands is used like IPO in Germany, the dogs have to rush through the trials, as soon as they are titled, they are sold overseas.
Prices are increasing, in a few years police will have the same problems in buying a good Malinois as they now have in buying a good German Shepherd, they can´t afford them any more. Private people do pay for the title "KNPV" without testing the single dog...
The immense prey drive does cover a lot of nerve issues, but nonetheless, it´s genetic, too. The Malinois already became bigger and heavier like the German Shepherd did.
They do follow us right now....


 

Good post Gustav .

A good dog have no colour, it,s true .

@ Duke Collin have  a very strong bloodlines, Greif zum Lahntal van,t Heutske, Troll,Mink,Rick Tiekerhook,Ajax Ursus schwarzen Milan
 I,m sure Arie have selected on this dogs.and yes they all have IPO backgrounds as  most of the GSD have in the KNPV.

Black GSD in KNPV  Ibor Blitse Dune. Inox Haus Ming,Atlas, Dodge KiridesJa, King Haus Ming Some  Tiekerhook some KNPV dogs from the Gardefense
Kennel, some black females friom the Blitse Dune, Haus Ming,Gardefense are many times used thats the reason why there are
a lot of Black / Black BI  color    GSD in the KNPV.