A CONFORMATION TEST in GSD WORKING TRIALS - REQUIRED - Page 23

It can be at the onset or crop up later with pressure. Every dog has a point where he will start to stress. You want that to be more than just a frontal positioning or a hard look from a helper, if a dog sees a stick or hears the whip, gunshot or a backfire and pisses itself, that is not a good quality. It is Ok for the dog to stress for a moment but you want to see a quick recovery. There are alot of dogs that will bite full on a sleeve but if the helper yells or raises the padded stick or even makes eye contact, the dog backs off the bite, 1/2 grips, 1/4 grips or even pops off the bite, some may even run. There are a hundred ways to read stress. Does the dog close his eyes at the stick, how does that affect his grip, does he just hang in there or does he fight the helper? Even the OB is a pressure, especially durring the bitework, the dog wants so badly to bite, yet he must hold back, this creates stress ontop of what the helper brings at the dog, handlers also can create stress. What you aim for is a dog that can take all of that and still wag his tail in the OB. LOL 

Missbeeb, the bad bite can be "fixed" or "covered up" with training but the dog will always go back to that, in times of stress. So a "genetic" full hard grip is prefered.

Thanks for that 4pack.  Thanks to all for your replies.  I guess I'll get a better understanding when I visit a trial for myself.  Watching the bitework at the Sieger, I was shocked at how many dogs failed to come off on command, I'm sure a trial will be different.
 
 

Quote by Missbeeb: "When the dogs grip gets, weak, shallow, chewy etc, is this something that is there from the outset of gripwork or can it become like this later?  I ask because training in other spheres... dogs can become dull / bored and a different handler / method can fix that.  Am
I right to assume that's not the case with bite work?  That a weakness is obvious from the start?"

Yes, it is clear from the start.  In fact, often you can tell about the grip in  the whelping box, as some dogs just have a genetically full, hard, calm grip.  You can "fix" a chewy or weak bite, but it is always only very temporary, as it reverts to its genetics when pressure is applied.   People have tried it, frequently, with weak dogs, in order to get them through to a title.  But, those dogs often must be worked ONLY on their home field, with their home helper, and the weather must be perfect, and the stars all properly aligned.   If the helper is a different person, the weak dog will crumble.  If the helper is a big guy, and they were accustomed only to a small, or female helper, the weak dog will crumble.   If the is a leftie, the weak dog is thrown by that, too. 
The  puppy  with a  full, calm, hard grip as a puppy, who looks the helper in the eye, regardless of what (albeit minor) pressure is put on it in the puppy bite-work is the kernel of a confident dog who will have a strong grip that can withstand pressure.   

 "Pressure"  does not have to be stick hits, or body language, etc.  It can be the simple fact of a different field, a different helper, blinds with bushes in front of them, etc.  These are all things that a dog will encounter on a trial field that the dog must deal with.   A confident, clear-headed dog is going to deal with them better than a weaker dog.  Changes that would roll off its back visibly disturb the dog with weaker nerves, like the jump being in a different spot. 

It is very much like people who must have their lucky charm for an exam or job interview and genuinely feel pressure without it.  Or, the change in schools for a kid, new jobs, etc.  These are all pressure events that humans must deal with. Some of us deal with it better than others, because of genetics (le.g. pilots--that is a certain type of person, not just training), training and experience.   As with people, you can socialize for experiences and train, but you cannot change a dog's genetics.   When the pressure is on, the genetics are expressed.

And for the reasons mentioned so elequently by Mystere and others,   when considering the merits of any particular dog,  we want to see a dog's  work,  rather than assuming the dog's bite work is acceptable based soley on the fact he is titled.

Mystere explains it very nicely and in a way that is easy to understand. It's more to the bite than people think. Misbeeb most of us don't have that perfect dog this is why working line breeders refuse to stop changing their breeding priority, because it's so hard to come by this perfect dog and if you stop breeding for that your chances will become even slimer. :).

4pak,

Good explanation.  I had forgotten all about the pressure OB brings to the picture.     Although, I think in OB, sometimes the weaker dog with less drive can perform better than the high-drive dog simply because it does not have the pressure of needing to hold it together, while in drive.  I am thinking of the dog that is such a retrieving fool and driven for the dumbbells that it vocalizes and is a mess in heeling, until it gets to the retrieving exercises.  Or, breaks the long down, to retrieve the dumbbell for the other dog!   Of course, that OB issue comes up big-time in protection.