Definition of Civil Drive for Police/P. Protection Dogs - Page 4

giving this thread a bump, hoping to keep it floating near the top just a bit longer.  i don't train police or military dogs however i have seen a decline in the last 30 yrs in the usefulness of gsds.  breeding for show and sport has left an unfavorable mark on the breed.  this thread has given me pause to think about where my dogs were several years ago, what they are like today and where i want to be in the next 10 or 20 years.  the dogs' ability to think for thermselves is critical to me.  the ability to see a real threat as opposed to non-threat.  years ago people talked about the intelligence of ther gsd.  today all you hear is drives, drives, drives.  there is a point when drives take over and intelligence takes the back seat.......i don't want to be there in 10 or 20 years.
pjp

The dog in the video is high prey drive, nice dog though. Looks like Emma

hmmm ,If hans is saying what I think he is saying , i have to disagree , at least if you are saying that the defence of a dog to a physical threat is learned or trained behaviour

or you must mean the sport/prey dog that they work in defence to wake up the little bitty piece of defence hidden somewhere inside(hopefully)

No that is not what I am saying. Try to read it again. Where do you see me saying such thing?
I have accentuate few points in my last post in order to enhance clarity.
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com

"The dog in the video is high prey drive"
Her drives are pretty balanced, but prey drive was built upon for sport work so you are seeing the results of training not a green dog.  Yes that is Ema.

I wish I could post the "end product" video of the high prey/low defense (as a green dog) I was referring to in my last post. But he's a working PSD and can't without approval.

hans , Im still reading this

Thus what the dog is going to attack (imprinted to attack) is always a learned behavior since nobody is going to convince anybody here that the dogs are genetically predisposed to bite a sleeve.


so you say  a dog is not geneticly imprinted to chase a prey (sleeve)
or geneticly imprinted to respond to a threat (fight or flight)

its all trained behaviour in your eyes , I still disagree
in training you can only work with what the dog already carries in his " luggage" , that what he carries , he carries by  what he geneticly  got from his parents , grandparents etc

so if you have an over the top preymonster , you cannot teach him to be civil , but you can adress the ,hopefully available little bitty defence/sharpness  somewhere inside of him , or the other way around , the civil dog , can be tought to carry the prey/sleeve , work without too much physical threath , whips  and so on , and adress his preydrive

every drive in a  dog is geneticly there in a bigger or smaller amount , what you do whit it trainingwise is a whole different story

see of it as a toolbox if you will , everybody has different tools in his toolbox , you can only take out of the box whats inthere , how you work the available tools afterwards is again a whole different story

No, what I am saying is that "drives" , like prey drive are hard wired genitally based behaviors. However what the dog is hunting or not hunting in that matter ( in another words what he targets or not targets with his drive)  is learned behavior. Dogs do not get inherited ability to chase a sleeve or ball but not chase kids. That is a learned (imprinted) behavior. But the drive to do so is inherited.
 There are sferes of brain. The closer to the amygdala (the most primitive sfere of the brain) the more animals have these inherited. Closer to the surface of the brain more it is learned.  To chase specific object like a ball is embedded closer to the surface of the brain. It is learned behavior. Which can be unlearned and changed . However the drive itself can not be unlearned or changed it can only be suppressed but it will always be there.
I hope this helps.
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com

written so clearly even a blind man can see it!!

I'm blind you insensitive prick! Now I know how those cavemen feel.