Shiloh Shepherds - Page 7

Sorry, good GSD's aren't hard to find, they're just expensive.  I've heard from more than a few LEO's who's depts switched to Mal's are now switching back to GSD's after a few years because the Mal's were not the solution they were hoping for.

Looks to me like Shiloh breeders and lovers come to this site to promote their aberation off of Oli's shirt tails.  How about doing your promotional selling and BS peddling on your own sites.  Since by your own assertions, the so called "shiloh shepherd" is not a German Shepherd or a type of German Shepherd (merely a distant derivative over a long period of time with at least one other breed bred in), there is no valid reason for your "sales con" to be presented on this site.  If I want to buy an aberated perversion of the GSD misbred over time I could get one out of the want ads of my local sunday paper by responding to the typical bs presented for the ininformed ignorant GSD buyer who neither has the ability or inclination to learn and know the GSD standard and why it exists.  In my view Shilohs are a most perveted aberation, a bad idea from the get go.  I'll stick with the GSD breed from West Germany and Europe which has been continually developed and improved over the last 100 years.  And I believe that the esteemed Capt. Von Styephanitz would be proud of the top rated SV showline and working line GSDs as they exist today.  He was continually advocating many gradual changes and improvements for the breed, and saw it as a continuing process of improvement requiring ongoing exhibition and vigilance by the breeders.  The best GSDs of today are a credit to the system he pioneered and are the greatest dogs in the world.  The top kennels in West Germany and Europe and in other areas of the world which base their GSDs on these SV or SV type lines, should be proud of the great GSDs they produce. The fact that they produce the highest gross sales dollars of any breed consistetly over the last 25 years proves my point, their pre-eminent value in the world market cannot be denied.  Any reasonable person who knows and understands the FCI GSD standard and sees it revealed in a top GSD, appreciates the terrific beauty, mind and intelligence, loyalty, incorruptibility, construction, symmetry in motion, versatility of tasking, agility, endurance and value as a guardian, worker and friend/companion. No other breed can match this consistently.  And that's a fact.  So how about peddling your hype elsewhere?

The fact remains, other breeds come & go in terms of popularity, but in the end it's back to the noble GSD.  Also, LE agencies can better afford Malis & Dutchies because they are less expensive.  Plus the other breeds certainly are great dogs in their own right.   A smaller more hyper type of dog suites some handlers.  The idea that agencies  have switched breeds because of the downfall of the GSD is a fallacy, at least according to the officers I know.   Finally, & unfortunately, all 3 breeds are prone to similar health problems. 

Excellent post GoldenElk.  Let's face it, most law enforcement agencies cannot aford the top rated SV GSDs, whether they be top profung dogs of top showline dogs. They just don't have the knowledge of what's correct in most cases and don't have the means or access to acquire these correct GSDs.  Some individual officvers are able to buy their own excellent specimens, but most cannot afford it. I know for a fact that a significant number of top police dogs have been bred and sold by Larry Filo of Steinig Tal Kennels (Wisconsin, USA) over the last 25 years.  I bought one of his dogs and it had awesome and totally correct temperament.  Friendly towards children and other animals, totally fearless and courageous, highly trainable, and a real take down artist when appropriate, able to know the difference between a spoof threat and a real one.  There are a number of similar kennels in the USA and Canada, and also some showline kennels that have superb temperamented GSDs.  You just have to know where to find them.  And you will have to pay a fair chunk of change for a great dog from them (and that's only fair). Personally, I don't care for mals looks or temperament.  I don't like such ugly dogs which to me act like nerve endings with no synnergy, reach, extension, and balance in movement.  Once one has a good looking, correctly temperamented, good moving GSD he or she will never want anything else (but one has to understand the FCI standard and why it works when exemplified in the GSD). Yep the GSD is the best looking, best engineered, greatest, most adaptable breed in the world.  And the gross sales dollars spent acquiring it worldwide prove this is so beyond any question because in the end folks will pay a lot of money for these dogs because they know they are worth it!

You know Golden Elk,  

you seem to center your points on Tina's desire to protect the wonderful work she has done with this breed. True she is quite protective of the gene pool, understandable if you are trying to breed a dog that has minimal instances of common health problems like bad hips.  She has actually made great and well documented strides in this area.  She is undisputed by anyone who wishs to become educated on Shilohs when she points out that many of the splinter groups are actaully trying to breed GSD's that look like Shilohs  simply for the money they can command.  Any pair of GSD's that mate where one or both has an unknown background introduces back into this new geen pool many of the traits And health characteristics that Tina has been so careful to breed out or reduce the instances of.

I own a Shiloh, I have interacted with Tina on many , Many occaisions and I have not found her logic to be irrational or her demeanor to be anything less than professional.  She is very helpful towards anyone who truely want to know about this breed.  She is very, Very careful about placing her dogs into the right homes. 

Most of her temperment, that you describe come from actions driectly precipitated towards and upon her by others, splinter groups, etc.  She is passionate about this breed and with the amount of time, money and effort she has put into securing a place for this breed in the world I for one do not begrudge her of this passion.

The true Shiloh is NOT a this or a that kind of dog. What they are for the overwhelming majority of them out there is a dog that is intelligent, loving, gentle, basically big furballs.  Sure, some are not suited for SARs work or any other kind of work commonly performed by GSDs.  Not all people are suited to be doctors or factory workers.  Each dog is an individual and different.  This is true for any breed and any dog.  I also have a papered lab who's parents were both chanpion retrievers. My lab only retrieves if I make him.  His personality just does not lend itself to retrieving.  As with any breed some are couch potatos and some are active. Some are large and some are average. I can say this, THEY ARE ALL WORTH EVERY PENNY OF THE PRICE TINA CHARGES.  It is my personal opinion that if she were to charge more she just might make a profit.  With Tina it is not about profit.  I dont know of anyone who has come to her with a ligit problem that was turned away.  I do know that as with every "incident or dissagreement",  there are two sides to the story.  To take a position one must know the facts from both sides.

Questions for the readers:

If you spent more than twenty years carefully documenting a gene pool and selecting the right dogs from that gene pool to breed in order to one day have a large enough gene pool to ensure the continuation of the breed, do you think you might be just a little bit protective of it?

Do you think you might be just slightly annoyed with others that take your work and profit from it with little regards to the quality of the puppies they are selling a Shiloh.  Do you think that is worth $1500?  Do you think that buyer beware applies here?

Maybe readers would be better served by more fact and less personal opinion. Yours seemed to be negative and selective.

Craig B

I'll probably get another massive attack here, but here I go anyway. I have dogs that have Shiloh lines. I have been told to FIX my dogs that produce Blues and that have Shiloh in them. That my Blues are not even German Shepherds, Even though they come out of such great names as Quanto Arminius, Karly Arminius, Flex V Blauen Modenesser, Pirol Arminius, Wildersteigerland , Fleischerheim,and SHILOH(I think prior to them becoming their own breed). I did not create the Blue gene, I do not sell my Blues as rare, they are what they are. A TRUE BLUE GERMAN SHEPHERD!

     I stand behind my dogs 100%, when I sell pups, I give a 100% hip, health and temperment GUARANTEE,. I HAVE NEVER , in 15 years had one complaint so I never had to HONOR MY GUARANTEE!!!!!!! I came on this board to ask for help researching my pedigree and got bashed by several people, how dare I think my dogs were anything, compared to theirs.

     If I have 2 litters, both females will care for the pups to the point that that they forget who their actual pups are, Kids can come and play with any of my dogs. My pups can visit the males without without risk of harm, my dogs will take a 20 mile hike while horseback riding and still want to go further.

     My dogs can be compared to the originals when you look through the Historical VA list when it comes to conformation.And the temperment is the best. I am sure that out there, maybe no one wants to admit, the Blue dogs, and the oversized dogs come out of the BEST OF LITTERS.AND NO, I don't beleive in CULLING the LItter, I won't even CULL a Frog!

kit-kat, your dogs sound wonderful! Do you have pictures of them available on the web? I'd love to see them!

I know the breed standard forbids certain colours in the show ring, but for a working dog, it shouldn't matter. As someone in the riding world once said, "A good horse is never a bad colour!"

It's easy, you don't have to cull them, you just don't BREED them.  Seems easy enough, I mean that's how the GSD was created and developed and earned the reputation it has today, by breeding the best of the best, and by following a standard.  Why is that so hard to understand?

that's how the GSD was created and developed and earned the reputation it has today, by breeding the best of the best, and by following a standard.  Why is that so hard to understand?

That's exactly how I created the Shiloh .. selective breeding ... why don't you read some of my articles??  http://www.shilohshepherds.info/siteMap.htm