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by ddr gsd on 27 December 2013 - 21:12
Via PM - www.germanshepherd-heukske.com
by ddr gsd on 27 December 2013 - 22:12
You cannot go wrong with FullforceK9!
by ddr gsd on 27 December 2013 - 22:12
Gerrit Vos - KNPV Breeder/Trainer NL
Excellent resource
by Gustav on 27 December 2013 - 22:12
Good post Bebo!
by ddr gsd on 27 December 2013 - 22:12
Carlos Van Vos Ph1, Dutch Shepherd.
There's some excellent genetic potential in the global market.
Whatever your fancy is, you cannot go wrong with KNPV
lineage in Dutchie's, Mali's and/or GSD's. The potential matings
makes it a bit easier, now that we have access to AI.
There's some excellent genetic potential in the global market.
Whatever your fancy is, you cannot go wrong with KNPV
lineage in Dutchie's, Mali's and/or GSD's. The potential matings
makes it a bit easier, now that we have access to AI.
by ddr gsd on 27 December 2013 - 23:12
It is a reciprocal relationship between any stud, any female. If you
have any upcoming potential breeding's, I sure hope you will be able
to enjoy the 'fruits-of-your-labor', and that the progeny will have an
enjoyable, satisfied forever home with a guiding, loving, and firm hand.
have any upcoming potential breeding's, I sure hope you will be able
to enjoy the 'fruits-of-your-labor', and that the progeny will have an
enjoyable, satisfied forever home with a guiding, loving, and firm hand.
by Ibrahim on 28 December 2013 - 01:12
Excellent post bebo
by ddr gsd on 28 December 2013 - 11:12
K9gardefenseworkingdogs
by ddr gsd on 28 December 2013 - 11:12
Martijn ten Caat
by OGBS on 28 December 2013 - 17:12
Bebo, et al,
To the casual observer, your post might look like a good one.
Where it fails the test is that I still have not seen one German Shepherd listed here that has generation after generation after generation of KNPV dogs. I'll agree with you when it comes to Dutch Shepherds and even a little with Mali's, but, when It comes to German Shepherds the KNPV people are getting them predominantly from the same West German working lines that Sch/IPO dogs come from.
Most have one or two KNPV dogs and the rest of the pedigree is littered with Sch/IPO dogs. The same dogs that have been in the BSP, WUSV, and produced offspring, or offspring of offspring that have done the same. There are even dogs in these pedigrees where a dog one generation went to KNPV and the next generation back to IPO. One even ended up in the WUSV 3 times. Imagine the scorn and ridicule this dog must have had to endure from the Dutch with him in a sport as easy and meaningless as Schutzhund when compared to all the bad-ass KNPV dogs. The KNPV people are buying dogs from, and breeding dogs to, the same dogs that are involved in Sch/IPO. If you can show one KNPV German Shepherd with 5 generations of KNPV dogs in at least half the pedigree then I might begin to believe you. If what you said about phenotype is true then after more than 100 years of producing so called superior dogs they wouldn't need IPO dogs to represent the majority of the dogs in their (KNPV) German Shepherds.
As for your analogy to a dog needing a third out command, "or beyond", I have to say you're incorrect on this one also. Outing issues are created by conflict due to a number of factors and rarely, if ever, is it because there is too much fight in the dog to have a clean out. Outing issues arise from poor and/or lack of training, a poor owner/handler relationship with the dog, or genetically weaker dogs. What so many view as a dog being tough because it is fighting while it should be outing, or takes cheap shots after outing is really a dog that doesn't want to out because this is where it feels safest. With some handlers and their helpers there is too much emphasis on the dog holding the sleeve for long periods of time. In a trial a dog never holds the sleeve for long periods of time. It's really fighting to stay on the sleeve because it doesn't like what has happened to it in training, or may not be far enough along in its training, it doesn't trust its owner/handler and says, F-off, I'm not letting go on your command because you suck and don't have my back, or, the weakness of the dog doesn't allow it to out the sleeve because it knows once it does it has to fight again, which it doesn't really like to do in the first place. All of these things create safety staying on the sleeve for the dog. A properly trained dog with a lot of genetic fight drive is more than happy to out the sleeve, and get back in to the fight (this means biting again), sleeve, or not.
I'll say it again, a good dog is a good dog, regardless of venue. A good dog should be more than capable of performing well (not to read, "the best") in any of the common venues associated with that particular breed.
To the casual observer, your post might look like a good one.
Where it fails the test is that I still have not seen one German Shepherd listed here that has generation after generation after generation of KNPV dogs. I'll agree with you when it comes to Dutch Shepherds and even a little with Mali's, but, when It comes to German Shepherds the KNPV people are getting them predominantly from the same West German working lines that Sch/IPO dogs come from.
Most have one or two KNPV dogs and the rest of the pedigree is littered with Sch/IPO dogs. The same dogs that have been in the BSP, WUSV, and produced offspring, or offspring of offspring that have done the same. There are even dogs in these pedigrees where a dog one generation went to KNPV and the next generation back to IPO. One even ended up in the WUSV 3 times. Imagine the scorn and ridicule this dog must have had to endure from the Dutch with him in a sport as easy and meaningless as Schutzhund when compared to all the bad-ass KNPV dogs. The KNPV people are buying dogs from, and breeding dogs to, the same dogs that are involved in Sch/IPO. If you can show one KNPV German Shepherd with 5 generations of KNPV dogs in at least half the pedigree then I might begin to believe you. If what you said about phenotype is true then after more than 100 years of producing so called superior dogs they wouldn't need IPO dogs to represent the majority of the dogs in their (KNPV) German Shepherds.
As for your analogy to a dog needing a third out command, "or beyond", I have to say you're incorrect on this one also. Outing issues are created by conflict due to a number of factors and rarely, if ever, is it because there is too much fight in the dog to have a clean out. Outing issues arise from poor and/or lack of training, a poor owner/handler relationship with the dog, or genetically weaker dogs. What so many view as a dog being tough because it is fighting while it should be outing, or takes cheap shots after outing is really a dog that doesn't want to out because this is where it feels safest. With some handlers and their helpers there is too much emphasis on the dog holding the sleeve for long periods of time. In a trial a dog never holds the sleeve for long periods of time. It's really fighting to stay on the sleeve because it doesn't like what has happened to it in training, or may not be far enough along in its training, it doesn't trust its owner/handler and says, F-off, I'm not letting go on your command because you suck and don't have my back, or, the weakness of the dog doesn't allow it to out the sleeve because it knows once it does it has to fight again, which it doesn't really like to do in the first place. All of these things create safety staying on the sleeve for the dog. A properly trained dog with a lot of genetic fight drive is more than happy to out the sleeve, and get back in to the fight (this means biting again), sleeve, or not.
I'll say it again, a good dog is a good dog, regardless of venue. A good dog should be more than capable of performing well (not to read, "the best") in any of the common venues associated with that particular breed.
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