Goodbye - Page 8

For heaven's sakes, GOODBYE ALREADY! Just can't stop writing those treatises, can you? Disgusting. 

NoCurs - the AKC will suspend anyone who is convicted of animal cruelty.  The amount of time varies.  For the individual in my case it was 15 years and a 5K fine that has to be paid before they are able register dogs again but it can be less than that in other cases. 

DDR-DSH
Dogs are how you keep and treat them I have had  my Dogs outdoors in Kennels for 60 years different breeds of Dogs including G.S Dogs, NEVER have i had in all those years a Fence Runner as you suggest, Why is that i wonder
Maybe they are content in where they live and the way they are handled and treated
Steve1

Anyone who wants to know more about my case can see some of the statements on the other thread called, URGENT--Defeat CA Rabies Bill AB 2689. I don't want to double post. Maybe some interesting stuff here for people, though. Most of these kinds of things we never get to find out what happened. It's so long ago, now, that I don't think it matters.

The city actually seemed to side with me and pressed the police to release the dogs.. then even went so far as to pay the lien on them! I had already paid $5,000 to bail out the dogs in most urgent need, at that time. Many had already died in the (in my opinion) DEPLORABLE conditions in the dog 'pound. But, you know how that goes.. No one ever takes them to task for abusing animals. It's even written into California code that they cannot be prosecuted for more than a misdemeanor.. but, for the citizen, it's a felony! And, anyway.. No one ever prosecutes them.

There is an office of accountability of sorts at the county level (county auditor's office), and they issue reports on their investigations and findings. There were a lot of scandals at that time with the animal control department. Sorry, but it's on the record and anyone can look it up. I actually was missing two of my best dogs there when I counted noses, which strangely showed up, later on.. I had a good suspicion that they had been sold or given to a local guard dog company. I actually did a quick drive through on their place and was almost positive that I saw them in a corner run. When I got them all back, I found that curiously, the male suddenly taught himself to heel! All in the time he was in the slammer! There was also a "conjugal visit litter".. bred on THEIR watch, not mine. They also took five three day old puppies and all died in their care. They never had a chance, in my opinion. And, that was a litter I had actually planned to have some four years, before. Finally I got the chance to do it, and all died, rather miserably, in the dog impound, sometimes erroneously called a "shelter"..

By the way, I find it very interesting that this crap all started up AFTER I said I was leaving. Looks like someone thought they'd get away with it? I guess I'll be sticking around after all, and besides, so many people have encouraged me to stay. But, I do have to take care of other things, so I have to place some limits on it. This has taken WAY more time than I ever planned to spend here, but I didn't bring it up.

Steve1.. I know for a fact that other GSD people sometimes have trouble with fence-runners. Most people who have had one in their kennel hate them (nothing personal, but just what they do) and will never knowingly take one on. It varies from one individual to another. This particular bitch, named "Figgy" was NOT a strong dog and came from a line that I know for a fact could produce some nervous, sensitive dogs. I believe that she was suffering from separation anxiety. She had a litter sister, whom she had grown up with, and unfortunately that bitch had bad hips, whereas Figgy OFA'd. So, Figgy stayed and the other one did not. But, you are missing the details, here.. Because Figgy was NOT in my care or in the kennel where she was taken from, until three days beforehand. Up until that time she was elsewhere and not under my care.. except that about three weeks before, I had been called to look at her and found her in shocking condition. I was VERY angry and had to go every day after work to feed and care for her, because she was not eating and had been allowed to run herself down. She was in a large enough kennel, by the way.. about eight by ten.. but she was just running laps around it, all day long. I have no idea why, really, but she was a very nervous dog and really, not suitable for breeding. She had never been bred, and I had no plans to use her for breeding, but I really didn't know WHAT to do with her, so she was elsewhere, not at the kennel. I assumed that she was being cared for properly, and she was not. After two weeks of literally force feeding her, she finally started to eat on her own, willingly, and was up and being a normal dog. I left very specific instructions on her care and about ten days later, I was told that she was down, again.. not eating. My instructions had been ignored. So, I had no choice but to bring her to the kennel, where she was in the gated / fenced front yard, with a crate to rest in and there I was able to attend to her. She had just eaten earlier that morning.. a whole can of Pedigree chicken, large can. And, she had water and was allowed to go out and then put back away. They killed her that morning, after taking pictures of her. No one cared what happened. No one asked. They just started to unleash hell on me.

Psycht or whatever..

  AKC did an inspection on my kennel very soon after the raid and found everything in order. All of my records were correct, and there were no deviations noted. Everything was fine and I was passed. I still have the paper from it. My kennel had been inspected by an animal control worker and passed in July of the previous year. I was never given a receipt for it, and I wish I had gotten it, but I wrongly trusted these people. This was my second AKC inspection, by the way, and I had no trouble with that one, either. I frankly doubt that most of the people reading this keep the records as well as I did.

  I decided that I really didn't care about AKC, anyway.. except that I knew that I had to place the dogs then and that no one would want most of them without the oh-so-precious AKC papers,. by means of which they could basically exploit my misfortune and snap up some nice breeding dogs with good pedigrees.. This is exactly what happened, by the way. Other breeders were coming out of the woodwork, cherry picking over the dogs. I didn't care, really.. I just knew that if I didn't get them out of there and as far away as possible, that they would be taken again and killed. Or spayed.. which would have been a waste. The better ones had a lot to offer and rare bloodlines (some of which are now basically extinct, thanks to the wonderful folks who "rescued" them). So, that's how it went.. I GAVE them all away, because there was really no time to sell them, except the better ones, perhaps.. and I was more concerned that they went to good people who would use them and keep the lines going. I even paid $5,000 out of my own pocket in liens just to get some of the ones in more dire need out of there, before something bad happened to them.

  So, regarding AKC.. I really didn't care about them and STILL don't, because I didn't see that they were really on the right side of things. Anyway.. There are other registries out there and if a person wants papers, they can get them. AKC is losing a huge amount of market share, because the commercial breeders especially have come to mistrust and dislike them. THAT is hurting everyone, including every one of you, and it is slowly killing AKC.. or so I have heard, that things are trending down for them. I only cared about the AKC "privileges" to the extent that I could hang onto them long enough to get these dogs all placed and out of my name. I didn't hold back ANY papers! The papers went with the dogs, with the exception of the "conjugal visit" puppies (bred in the impound) and one litter of four that I had bred from the same male, a recent import whose papers were not done until some time after all this was over.

I have not read every post on this subject so have not missed any points at all, I only read where you state a lot of Dogs are fence runners and i replied i have had none in 60 years of keeping dogs outdoors all there lives, some for 14 and 16 plus years old when they passed on.
For me i cannot read and sit to follow Posts of lenght when you Guys are posting on here i am asleep or at least trying too there is 8 to 10 hours different time scale in our lives and i look in on the Forum and see new threads with a huge amount of posts on them which were not there when i closed the computer down the night before.
I am not saying Dogs do not act that way but to me if a Dog is Bored not given enough simulas to occupy its time then Yes, they may become Fence runners or diggers, For me it has never happened
Steve1

4pack.. If you want an answer to that question, "Why / how 57 dogs", then read some of the other posts, slowly and carefully. Not exactly to save them, but surely I didn't want to kill them, either. I admit that this is my downfall.. I was too sensitive to the "no kill" arguments of others. I decided I would not kill any more dogs, and simply didn't have the time and available homes to place them in. I had NO HELP at the kennel, at that time. My husband, who had been my only helper, had just been forced to start commuting very far every day to a new job. I tried to hire someone but both prospects flunked out.. probably drugs, but I don't know for sure what was wrong with them. I should have just hired some guys from Home Depot, undocumented workers, but here again I was trying to do the right thing and not go that route.

When these things happen, everyone just wants to jump in your shit and no matter what you do or say, it's always the same. It's the pack mentality, I think.. blood lust and the thrill of the hunt. I'm "it", in this game. No matter what I would say or do, it would be wrong on some basis, per someone out there. That said, I have gotten several PMs from people who are sympathetic or alarmed at the way things are turning into a "Pet Police Planet" of sorts.. I call them, "Pet-NAZI's". Believe me, that nothing like this would have ever happened, some twenty years ago, or maybe even fifteen years ago. Now, kennel raids are becoming very common. I was told this recently in a discussion with an AKC rep who works on this level and there is a lot of concern on their part. From the standpoint of law enforcement, this is impound work..  There's a lot of jobs and money in it, it seems. So, it's sort of like those traffic lights that are showing up everywhere. They're obviously hoping to cash in on those things, no?

BabyEagle.. 30 counts dismissed? LOL.. They charged me for 27 counts of felony animal cruelty, for dogs THEY killed! Many of them were dogs which were perfectly healthy but older or had some other issues which would have made them unlikely adoption candidates. One was a really strong bitch who came from Germany, and I knew that she would take someone out if she was handled by someone who didn't know what they were doing. That was my noble Fanny.. Who I heard Ed Frawley had been trying to buy. But, I couldn't take the chance and she was seven or so.. I had to forfeit her, with the recommendation that she be PTS. So, with her and all the others I gave to them, mainly to mitigate damages with regards to the rapidly mounting impound fees.. (either the city or myself would have had to pay, and there was no reason to let the damages mount up).. Again.. with all of these perfectly healthy dogs (mostly older) which THEY decided to euthanize.. They wanted to charge me with a felony! Now, THAT is outrageous!!! But, they were putting intense pressure on me. They wanted to prevent me from going any further and possibly sueing them in Federal court. This is what my attorney told me, anyway, and I think it is true.

Now.. Let me ask you this.. I looked at the Salztalblick site the other day, and no one questions them, but they are doing a shitload of breedings, every year. They change dogs like some people change underwear! I'm not criticizing them.. I rather admire their record, really.. But, no one is calling them out. Do you think that everything is so wonderful over there in Europe? Hardly! I know someone who recently bought a titled bitch who apparently had her back broken in training. No one cares. No one cares about the police slamming and hanging dogs as part of routine training, either. Why? Well, I suppose it's because bullies always go after the prey that they think they can get.. It's the same sort of a mentality, really, that precluded the Salem witch trials and the Jewish Holocaust. Until a hundred years ago, people in this country would still take the family and a picnic basket to public lynchings. I don't understand it, but this is what makes people tick, apparently.

I am really curious about some of you people, that you apparently find so much sport in something like this. If you're just curious, I think that is normal.. That you would enjoy it too much, I find disappointing. Let's just say that I am sad for you.

Well, let's look at the animal rights activists, and their arguments, which most of you are repeating.. So, either you ARE animal rights activists, or to some degree persuaded by their arguments... which is exactly what they are hoping for, by the way.. They WANT to subvert the popular culture and change it over to their way of thinking. And, this is what is happening. It will eventually be the undoing of the dog world, I fear.. Not that I really care that much about the dog world, by the way.. I do, and I don't. When I really realized that none of you cared what was happening to me or my dogs, I had to admit that it was really not very interested in YOUR fates, either. My only reasons for caring, at this time are multiple and a bit vague.. I suppose that one of my strongest feeling for a long time was a need for vindication, of sorts. But, they would not let me win. They could not allow that... I knew they had me compromised and pretty defenseless. I actually had enough evidence and witnesses on my side that it made the prosecutor very uncomtable, it seemed. There is a point right before trial where you have to disclose your evidence, and you try to wait as long as possible, because they will simply re-craft their case to avoid any pitfalls they may encounter in your defense. So, you try not to give them much lead time to do that.. Well, the prosecutor seemingly went from cool-as-a-cucumber in the morning, to looking sheepish and very stressed in the afternoon.. But, I was told by my attorney that they were promised that if we won, there would be a re-filing of new charges.. They do this sort of thing a lot, by the way. Pleas are a form of settlement, and settlements are pragmatic and sensible. Anyone who gets too caught up in notions of "principle" usually ends up the worse for it. If you don't understand this, then you are one of those type, and frankly, that is stupid.

Using the AR argument, shelters should be "no kill". This is a real hot button with AR activists. Using that argument, most go to the next logical step.. They say that there are already enough dogs and cats looking for homes, so "we" (as as society) should not be breeding any more. That puts just about everyone on this list "out of business", so to speak. So, I don't think that this is an argument you really want to embrace. There is another problem with "no kill". It means that you have to keep all of your dogs until they are 12, 13, 14, or 15 years old. Because the idea is never to kill a dog, right? Well, I actually agree with that, in spirit. I have done the pragmatic thing and put dogs down simply because they were no longer needed. Maybe I could have found homes for some of them, and some I did.. But I always felt that I was (by their argument) taking a home from another dog out there who would go without. I brought these dogs into the world, and I was simply doing the right thing, the responsible thing, by having them humanely put down by a licensed veterinarian. But, I never felt completely right about it. I cried myself home the two hour drive. The veterinary staffers clearly didn't like it, either. They gave me those "How could you"? looks. I tried to understand their feelings and decided that I would try harder and take up a no kill policy of my own. Do you see where this got me? It got me into a world of hurt.. No jail time, but a destroyed retirement (thank you, very much) and ten years of grieving and pain. So, what does all of this mean? I don't know! None of it makes any sense to me! I heard of a big rescue whose owner / operator died of cancer, but while she was dying, she would