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by gucci on 12 November 2010 - 02:11
What felloffher said, Lida
by Pharaoh on 12 November 2010 - 02:11
To the people who stated that Ibrahim was wrong to bring it up on the forum, Are you saying no matter what? No matter how many unanswered emails? Ibrahim is in Jordan and Andrea is in Germany, he couldn't just take a drive there. That would be quite a journey.
The disturbing thing in Andrea's letter is her mention that he got the dog cheap and what did he expect. In other words, she implied that he got what he paid for. No matter the price, honesty in the transaction is expected. If she didn't like the price, she should not have sold him the dog. That would have been up front and honest.
I may be making unwarranted assumptions, but I do believe there is a bit of cultural misunderstanding. I base this on my own life and experiences which may be wrong, but maybe not entirely.
I grew up in an old urban inner city. My father was Irish and my mother was Syrian. They scrambled to pay for a private school that they could barely afford. So, my mother bargained the price. She was a very skillful negotiator and the price was arranged. It involved my mother working at the school cafeteria, The German nuns always thought they could impose upon me for favors, accompanying them on shopping errands etc.
My mother used her skills to get a better price from doctors, department stores and everything really. It used to make me uncomfortable when I was young. The world was her bazaar. Now, I am so thankful that my skillful Arabic mother taught me the fine skill of bargaining. It has served me well. Friends will ask me to go with them when they are buying a car or negotiating a mortgage. This is probably one reason that I became a CPA. I am very good with numbers indeed.
Michele
The disturbing thing in Andrea's letter is her mention that he got the dog cheap and what did he expect. In other words, she implied that he got what he paid for. No matter the price, honesty in the transaction is expected. If she didn't like the price, she should not have sold him the dog. That would have been up front and honest.
I may be making unwarranted assumptions, but I do believe there is a bit of cultural misunderstanding. I base this on my own life and experiences which may be wrong, but maybe not entirely.
I grew up in an old urban inner city. My father was Irish and my mother was Syrian. They scrambled to pay for a private school that they could barely afford. So, my mother bargained the price. She was a very skillful negotiator and the price was arranged. It involved my mother working at the school cafeteria, The German nuns always thought they could impose upon me for favors, accompanying them on shopping errands etc.
My mother used her skills to get a better price from doctors, department stores and everything really. It used to make me uncomfortable when I was young. The world was her bazaar. Now, I am so thankful that my skillful Arabic mother taught me the fine skill of bargaining. It has served me well. Friends will ask me to go with them when they are buying a car or negotiating a mortgage. This is probably one reason that I became a CPA. I am very good with numbers indeed.
Michele
by gucci on 12 November 2010 - 03:11
You have no clue, I am not saying he should not have asked, he is correct, but I know Andrea, I have 5 of her dogs, she sometimes takes a long time in answering her mails. I have a male from her that was 59 @ 12 Mons. Now, at 15 Mons he is 62 and the standard by the SV has been lowered to 64, so, no prob. I am just not into breeder bashing...think unless you know BOTH sides of the story it is wrong.. But., thanks for asking Lida
by Ibrahim on 12 November 2010 - 16:11
beetree,
You are correct when you say von Nimbus have nice dogs, I agree with that totally. I did not understand from what you've written above this sentence:
quote: this trainer and breeder can be dead right they measured the wrong dog.
Are you implying they sent me another dog? If that is what you mean you are wrong and I never said such a thing. My only complaint is only about she telling me a wrong height other that what he actually measures, added she not addressing this fact by not replying to my e mail, and ignoring it in the other.
Ibrahim
You are correct when you say von Nimbus have nice dogs, I agree with that totally. I did not understand from what you've written above this sentence:
quote: this trainer and breeder can be dead right they measured the wrong dog.
Are you implying they sent me another dog? If that is what you mean you are wrong and I never said such a thing. My only complaint is only about she telling me a wrong height other that what he actually measures, added she not addressing this fact by not replying to my e mail, and ignoring it in the other.
Ibrahim
by beetree on 12 November 2010 - 19:11
Ibrahim,
No, I am implying that sometimes there are honest mistakes, and maybe no one will ever know exactly why your dog is smaller than what you were told. There is a language difference, and there could be cultural aspects that are driving this difference. In her reply she does make it sound like you are making a third complaint, and maybe she thinks you have buyers remorse and will never be satisfied, and so she stops replying. Also, she clearly is loyal to her trainer, and I can't really find fault with a boss like that. What if the trainer misunderstood her boss, and measured the wrong dog, but does not know they made a mistake? Then everyone will think they are correct and really no one would be...
Please realize my only point is to say there are other scenarios perhaps, that this could be true, not that it is, I of course cannot know.
I know it is the principle of truth you are after, so I will not judge you whether you should have brought this out now, or waited, or not at all.
No, I am implying that sometimes there are honest mistakes, and maybe no one will ever know exactly why your dog is smaller than what you were told. There is a language difference, and there could be cultural aspects that are driving this difference. In her reply she does make it sound like you are making a third complaint, and maybe she thinks you have buyers remorse and will never be satisfied, and so she stops replying. Also, she clearly is loyal to her trainer, and I can't really find fault with a boss like that. What if the trainer misunderstood her boss, and measured the wrong dog, but does not know they made a mistake? Then everyone will think they are correct and really no one would be...
Please realize my only point is to say there are other scenarios perhaps, that this could be true, not that it is, I of course cannot know.
I know it is the principle of truth you are after, so I will not judge you whether you should have brought this out now, or waited, or not at all.
by yellowrose of Texas on 13 November 2010 - 00:11
I do not buy the LANGUAGE BARRIER excuse
THIS IS SCHUTZHUND TERRITORY KENNELS AND DOGS SOLD TO PEOPLE ALL OVER THE WORLD ...
HOW hard is it to measure a DOG>??? JUDGES from all countries know how...THIS IS the most simple thing in the world to do .....I do not buy it.. BREEDERS ALL OVER THE WORLD KNOW HOW!
There have been controversies over size of Judged dogs given V ratings for the last 5 years but that is in the SHOW RING not buying a dog...Buying a dog is being accountable to the buyer if you make a mistake and quote wrong info.
THe breeder should have addressed it... I DO NOT BELIEVE she was dishonest in any way...SHE just got hit with an incorrect size stated to Ibrahim and has been negligent in responding to him...
Andrea Betz is a very reputible breeder.... BUT dogs are measured all over the WORLD every day and the SUV CM size is not difficult for anyone to understand...
Let this be a learning thread to all who communicate for a sale of dog over puppy size.(6mos. and over)
YR.jpg)
THIS IS SCHUTZHUND TERRITORY KENNELS AND DOGS SOLD TO PEOPLE ALL OVER THE WORLD ...
HOW hard is it to measure a DOG>??? JUDGES from all countries know how...THIS IS the most simple thing in the world to do .....I do not buy it.. BREEDERS ALL OVER THE WORLD KNOW HOW!
There have been controversies over size of Judged dogs given V ratings for the last 5 years but that is in the SHOW RING not buying a dog...Buying a dog is being accountable to the buyer if you make a mistake and quote wrong info.
THe breeder should have addressed it... I DO NOT BELIEVE she was dishonest in any way...SHE just got hit with an incorrect size stated to Ibrahim and has been negligent in responding to him...
Andrea Betz is a very reputible breeder.... BUT dogs are measured all over the WORLD every day and the SUV CM size is not difficult for anyone to understand...
Let this be a learning thread to all who communicate for a sale of dog over puppy size.(6mos. and over)
YR
by nonacona60 on 13 November 2010 - 00:11
I agree with not buying the LANGUAGE BARRIER excuse.......I think instead of assuming excuses, whats wrong with the truth......The truth has no LANGUAGE BARRIER, regardless of what country you"re in, or what country you're from.....JMO
by beetree on 13 November 2010 - 01:11
I was very careful not to use words like barrier and excuse. Instead I was thinking of what Ibrahim had posted once before, about leaving people with their dignity when there are disputes. At least, that is the path to actually solving things, I think.
by Ninja181 on 13 November 2010 - 01:11
“I've learned that people will forget what you said, people will forget what you did, but people will never forget how you made them feel.”
by Ibrahim on 15 November 2010 - 18:11
Beetree,
You are the one who demanded several times that I show a picture with scale, now if I post a picture which shows what he actually measures how would that leave her some dignity !!! would it be satisfactory for you if I told you I have a picture which proves that he measures less than 59.5 cms without publishing it??? please reply.
Ibrahim
You are the one who demanded several times that I show a picture with scale, now if I post a picture which shows what he actually measures how would that leave her some dignity !!! would it be satisfactory for you if I told you I have a picture which proves that he measures less than 59.5 cms without publishing it??? please reply.
Ibrahim
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