Fun Poll--What would your dog do? - Page 9

getarealdog I have noticed alot of nerve problems with mals. I rescued one for awhile but it needed a quiter home than ours/

One more observation: most dogs when in a fight, will bite anything and anyone in the vicinity. This is why even if you are the owner of both fighting dogs, it is very likely that you will be bitten should you get in the middle of it. I am not convinced at all that a dog "recognizes" an owner or handler in the scenario described. Dogs, like humans in certain situations, do switch into a mode where it is not thinking rationally as we often consider the word. By the way, from personal experience as a paramedic and law enforcement person, do not get into it with someone high on drugs or alcohol and think that macing them is going to do anything but make the situation worse. Drugs and alcohol or simply altered states of consciousness make people and dogs very dangerous. Like I said, prevention is the key. Do not be stupid and place yourself in situations that might result in scenarios like we are talking about. For my money, I prefer dogs who are a little "sharp". That being said, they must be trained and handled differently than rugs who lick. Most people do not know how to handle that type of temperament and many working dogs do have this sharpness......

Hodie, sharp old Blitz is arriving in Denver on Saturday, I'll send you all the information after I pick up my new beagle mix at the SPCA. You're not kidding about dog fights. I've broken up more than I care to talk about and have been bitten in the process. Nothing stops them except if you're lucky enough to be able to shove one into a contained area where the other can't go. Hitting them, hosing them, pepper spray, vinegar, forget it all. They only blame it on their worthy opponent and get even more agitated. If you can't separate them it then becomes survival of the fittest. Go inside, have a drink and call the vet. It's my experience that bitches are more violent fighters than males. A male will generally stop when the other cries "Uncle" while most bitches want the other one to die a horrible death.

Blitzen, I agree 100%. The worst fights I have ever seen, fortunately NOT among my own dogs, have been between females. Males do a lot of posturing and one almost always submits and the fight ends. I try to prevent them in the first place, even though all my dogs live together. I have never had a really serious fight, just a little grumbling here or there over a toy. Of course, when females are in heat, then I am even more careful.

LOL yes bitches are worse than males. Even my old broken down showline, can't help but almost break a hip, to get at my daughters dog as she passes by. Then again she really doesn't "like" anyone, but the other bitch here is too tempting to pass up, for a snap at. =) Dogs are so weird sometimes.

Well I know my non-schutzhund showline would definately bit the man..he has already protected me. He is so laid back I never thought he would, but when it counted he came thru. Our mix would protect my kids hopefully me but he would never be in the car cuz he's a puker!! lol

I feel sorry for those who have a GSD house pet and family companion which they are not certain will fight 100% to protect them. If you haven't ever had this kind of normal GSD temperament which assures 100% protection effort by your GSD then you can't understand what I am referring to. Some believe that no GSD will bite an attacker without specvialized training. This is only true of GSDs bred to be soft. A GSD with normal working temperament as Capt. Von Stephanitz specified will automatically bite to protect his master if it is appropriate to the situation. If you've had a GSD like this you will understand what I am referring to and will always try and have a GSD like this--you can't settle for less after having this. I suggested that hardness to fight and win in protecting one's owner/master, home, etc. is closely related to the natural herding instinct of GSDs to protect and manage the herd at all costs, even if it involves givin gis life. In support of this I have known several folks who imported dogs from Kirshental Kennels in W. Germany, renown for breeding actual real world working dogs with great success in sheepherding and confirmation ratings too. These GSDs have been friendly, outgoing, pets and naturally dominant, very tough family protectors with sound judgement, even the bitches. Coincidence?, I don't think so. As p59teitel once described his Kirshental dog regarding his exams at the vet, etc. it sounded to me like this is a GSD with very correct temperament that will make a 100% effort to protect he and/or his family without a doubt.

part II: We have a local AKC judge here who in the 1960's imported a very expensive show rated GSD who was the highest Sch rated GSD in Europian profung (of W. German breeding). If you e-mail me I will give you her name (she is well known). She had a large home in an outlying area with a very large yard. She had a screen porch she kept locked. One summer day, she heard a slight ruckus on her porch. She went out there to see what happened and found a man half way in her window. The dog had grabbed his arm and locked on, holding him. The knife he had used to slit the screen was dropped and was laying out of reach on the porch floor inside. She called the police and the dog held the man until the police came. If the man struggled the dog just increased the pressure on his arm and made him comply. Her dog never barked and calmly handled it just like a typical days work. Her GSD would never have have neglected to protect her at any time. Those of us who knew the dog understood its soundness and the power it had to fiercely protect when appropriate. This GSD was truly impressive and was a stallion male. The dog exuded confidence and had the look of an eagle in its eyes. It never experienced any fear during it's lifetime. I hired a contractor to do some exterior remodelling two years ago. I told him whenever he wanted to come in to use the facilities, ring the doorbell of if I was outside, get me, but don't just walk in because my male GSD would stop him and this would not be a pleasant experience. One day he "forgot" and just walked in when I was in the backyard. My dog immediately grabbed his ankle when he stuck his foot in the door and wouldn't let go (If he tried to pull back my dog increased the pressure and brought him into compliance, but did not rip into his leg). The contractor yelled to me in the backyard but I didn't hear him for a few minutes. Finally I heard him say, "Help, your dog has got me. I'm stuck. I can't go in or out." I went in and my dog let him go and let him in because I was there, and my dog was once again friendly to him and let him pet him. He told me he was impressed with the dog's intelligence and temperament. Because I have been around GSD breeders for 40 years I know of a fair number of incidents relating to true GSD temperament including two additional incidents relating to AKC judges who had w German imports who were tough as nails in real time situations (not staged protection tests either).

One of the greatest producers of hard, correct temperament was Youth Sieger Eros Luisenstrasse. This fabulous dog sired the infamous V Lenon du val D'anzin and the highly respected VA Utz von Hirschel. I have a friend that visited Lenon on his home turf and was completely impressed with the dog's ability to protect his owners and the premises. I also visited and observed a litter of 8 puppies at 8 weeks old sired by Lenon which turned out to have great temperament (these pups also had fire in their eyes). There are some "very interesting" stories about Lenon and most are probably true, but I'll not say anymore about this. Eros was legendary for producing GSDs with protection instinct (not defensive instinct but the will to dominate and defeat any attacker) and this was usually produced in extreme form (as good as any top ranked profung GSD). Most of Eros's progeny had what I have defined above: the look of an eagle or bird of prey in the eyes, i.e. "fire in the eyes". Eros was a dominant producer for correct working temperament like what was specified by Capt. Von Stephanitz.

Additional examples of correct temperament. An AKC judge who is a friend of mine had a GSD of Lance of Franjo bloodline (heavily linebred). The dog was friendly to houseguests once accepted by the owner or his wife, but when in the house or fenced-in backyard, would not let anyone in without the owners greeting them. The dog knew me well and I would always pet him when I was in the house visiting my friend. When I would first arrive, the dog would be out in the fenced-in backyard to greet any visitors. He wouldn't let me come in through the gate. He would let me pet him but would never let me come in. For over a year I tried to give him treats and coax him to let me in through the gate. He never would and would "smile" at me when I started to come in. He would grab me if I proceeded, but would still be wagging his tail, even when barking at me. It was a game to me and to the dog (he knew it and enjoyed greeting me) but he still would never let me in no matter what unless his master greeted me. He patrolled the premises with a vengeance. When my friend went out at night he took the dog in his van and I never would have dared open the door. This dog was brought on easily by any challenge and responded proportionately. Interestingly enough he was trained in sheepherding and excelled in that. His natural instinct to protect was probably atypical for most AKC American Shepherds (which is probably a separate breed from W. German bred SV GSDs). But one must always evaluate the individual GSD because pedigree doesn't always explain an individual progeny. In the late 1960's I had a German import bitch who would greet our neighbors at the door (they'd knock on the screen door and we would yell for them to come on in). The dog would grab them lightly on their right wrist and "bring them to us" without hurting them. Folks thought this was pretty neat. The bitch was tough as nails but just as outgoing and friendly too. I gave her to a very close friend of mine who was an engineer who was transferred to Venezuala for a large international corporation. They were expected to either have a guard dog or an armed guard at their rented home because of the very high crime rate. The bitch would never let one of the hired maids get too close to his wife and when she was napping wouldn't let the lady come upstairs at all. Later on this lady was arrested as part of a burglary/kidnapping ring. The dog knew she was bad and never trusted her. On another occasion the dog drove off a burglar trying to break in at night. And yet this dog never seemed tough unless the occasion arose when it was appropriate. Her breeding was from herding lines.