The Myth about Golden middles - Page 6

Ajay,

I think you hit on part of the problem in your reply to my post.  On one hand you you say... "If you feel that you know more than the judge, then don't take the dog to the show.  However, the proper etiquette is to respect the judge's opinion even if you don't agree with it. "

but earlier you said... "I am not defending today's judges because a lot of them either don't want to see the truth and have their judgements blinded by the trendy stuff. "

So, if I get this right... "a lot of judges" are sticking their heads in the sand or have a distored view.  Hmmm...from what you describe I am struggling to grasp why I should "respect the judge's opinion" if so many, by your admission, are biased.

Let me run with your thought... let's assume that a lot of judges are off-base.  The individual buyer still has the right to choose what kind of dog he/she wants to buy and raise.  In America, where there are no breed controls, it's supply and demand.  The reason BYB's crank out crap pups for $100 a pop is because people will buy them.  If people stopped buying their poor quality breedings, they wouldn't be so eager to crank out the litters and populate the classified ads.

On the high end of the market, it's still the same principles in play.  If people stopped buying pups from "extreme" dogs, then before long the market would dry up in response, regardless of how many breeders sprayed the internet with their ads. 

Yvette

Poor 4pack. Can't see the forest for the trees.

I have a question about the "golden middle" issue.  First, as everyone knows,  many breeds have working lines & show lines.  I think this applies to all the hunting & retrieving breeds.   I don't understand how this is necessarily a bad thing, so long as the dogs that are bred are breed surveyed.  Granted, the show line people get their working titles under judges who appreciate the show lines & working line people get their conformation ratings under judges who appreciate the working lines, but is that really so bad?   Does anyone else think it's a matter of knowing what blood lines will produce the type of dog  you prefer & what you can handle (or want to handle)?  Thanks in advance for taking the time to read this let alone answer it for me!  

Sounds simple Yvette but I don't think it will ever work that way. We choose dogs with the backgrounds we think are proven. Pet owners, 1 in 20 even knows the difference between working and showlines let alone Czech/DDR/American. They think..."ohh I like the pretty black and red ones. Do they even ask or care about working ability?

Plenty of people still prefer the overangulated showline dogs of today, or the over the top drives in some working lines. Judges will continue to push over sized/overangulated dogs to the podium. Why? Because they sell. People are impressed by big and pretty. How many are all ready out there as eye candy for the next guy who wants one just like it? It's up to breeders not the buyers to produce the correct dog. Unfortunatly too many breeders have money on the mind not the betterment of the breed. Of course they will continue breeding what sells. Allot of working dog folk like dogs with too much drive for the average Joe too.

Also who am I to say what is better for the breed? Better for us may not be your cup of tea. So many people are breeding dogs that work for them, not the next guy. As long as there is a need/want/interest in any type of dog/GSD we will find them being bred. FCI standards or no.

As we walk or work our dogs, I have so many people asking me when we will breed because our dogs are beautiful and that is what they are looking for. LOL they have no idea what is behind that cute ball of fuzz. Selling them a pup would be a death sentence, possibly for them but more than likely the pup. They have no clue. No clue at all, they simply don't know to look farther ahead than right now. Today cute little puppy...Tomorrow raving lunatic dog chewing the hose, digging the yard and biting the kids. They have a vision of doggie asleep on the couch while the kids watch cartoons. Dog was bred for all day energy and the brains to keep getting out, to expend that energy. It's silly for us to think all people can grasp that. As GSD people we are the ones who need to buy/demand what represents what we want. The public never will.

Spook- You're still trying to save them all. Give it up or you drive yourself crazy. Still recovering here.

Who thought the breed needed to be improved upon after Max died?

Was that his last request on his death bed?  To have people change the breed he worked so hard to develop.

I read the article posted.  To me it did not describe a "Golden Middle", it described a top level herding dog and I have tons of respect for those top level herding dogs.  No golden middle dog would be able to do what the author described their dogs capable of doing.  To me a golden middle is a nice family pet, one that won't excel at anything but will make the owners happy.  That's fine if that's what you are looking for.  I don't want a golden middle, I want one that will excel.

One of the things that has always bothered me about dog shows and not just the GSD shows, but all dogs shows is that the majority of dogs in the working dog, herding dog and sporting dog groups, don't have working titles, herding titles, or sporting titles.  Speaking strictly of the AKC venue. To me those dogs are the "golden middle" of their breeds. Only once have I ever heard an announcer at one of those shows even mention that one of the dogs has an actual working title. I was so blown away, I thought I was hearing things. I had taped the show, so I played it back several times to make sure I heard it correctly. They were speaking of a malinois, and actually mentioned the dog had a schutzhund title.  My beloved red and blacks are turning into that kind of dog. IF the AKC judges ever decide to put up dogs that are not over angulated hock walking kangaroos,  there is a whole new venue for the black and reds. This worries me more than whether or not we have a definition of "golden middle".

As I stated earlier in my first post, this is another  discussion where the participants are not going to agree. Not just disagree over the definition of a term, but why we have that term bandied about.  This term suits the needs and definition of what some consider, to them is the ultimate dog, and to others it is a term "meaning LESS". Whether the term is "meaning LESS" than desireable, TO THEM, or whether it is "meaning LESS so they will have something to argue about" really doesn't matter. It is always going to be there, because there is a split in our breed.  As long as people expound on the joys of the "golden middle", whatever it means, and however they choose to define it, it is going to be here. Just like, German Show Line Dogs that can Actually work or Exceptional Competition Dog or Breeding to Improve the Breed. Catch phrases all. With some breeders, websites, or ads, those catch phrases are true. AND, yes, it is up to the buyer to do their homework, research, visit breeders, and decipher the good, the bad and the ugly (and no, I am not referring to the two lines).

But the fact remains, we do a huge injustice to the breed, we love, and to ourselves as the GSD future. Yes, there are honest people out there, BLESS their hearts and breeding programs. Then, there are the less than honest. Be honest about why you claim the "golden middle", HOWEVER you define it, is the "perfect" GSD.

It has been said several times, by several people, for several years, we all love our dogs and think they are perfect. In my eyes, all of my dogs are perfect. That is why I rely on honest, okay well hopefully honest  judges to tell me where my dogs' flaws lie, and how to improve those flaws in the future generation. Honestly, the LAST thing I want to hear from a judge, whether it be show or working trial is "this dog is an excellent example of the Golden Middle." That dog would be altered and retired immediately!

Realcold, was wondering where you've been. Sorry I slipped off the wagon again. The good news is, I've had about all the swill I can handle so I'll go hibernate again. No, Realcold, I don't want to save 'em all; besides I'm already crazy. Nice hearing from you.