Shiloh Shepherds - Page 4

  Preston, ur right to the point kinda guy :)   now take you hyper can't live with german line  GSD and lock him up  .visitors may be coming <smile >

Preston...wow! It's been a long time since I've seen such faulty logic!

Let me refute a few of your arguments. Im sure Ms. Barber can do a better job of poking holes in them, but she's not here right now...

1) Tina's family breed GSD's in German. Both her parents AND grandparents were breeders.

2) Tina recognized there WERE PROBLEMS with the American GSD.

3) She started her own line of GSD's to CORRECT these problems. Some of the thing she selected for: good hips and elbows, not overangulated, large size (the GSD's she remembered from Germany were MUCH larger than  what they are producing now) excellent with kids, a reliable family protector with a stable, confident  temperment and good movement.

4) Now please explain to me how all this (except for the large size) VIOLATES THE STANDARD??  Yes, some Shilohs are a bit overangulated. So are many American and German showline Shepherds, but the good ones are not.

You know, I almost wondered if your post was a joke when I first read it...

golden elk

I have met Tina,  and her name is Tina or Mashiloh as many call her, not Barber I feel that is disrespectful and if you are an adult I would expect better of you. and talked to her on the phone and read her book and the New Zion Website and I'm buying a pup from her.  I actually came by the Shiloh by accident.  I won't call it a breed, because Tina Says that it won't be a breed until she is finished developing it.  I came upon the shiloh when I was researching another breed for a friend.  The more I researched different breeders and looked at the dogs they were offering, the better I liked Tina's Dogs.  I don't know what you qulifications are as a dog person, myself I'm an amateur I've had 2 or three dogs at a time from the time I was 3 years old, mostof them were just mutts, but we always had one German Shepherd Dog and I've got utmost respect for the breed(see that time I used the word breed).  I was also A dog handler in the Airforce for 4 years and I can think of at least one occasion where that GSD probably saved med from a severe beating.

But enough of my rambling, While you are entitled to your opinion, Tina has forgotten more about breeding and training dogs than most people can ever hope to learn.  She has developed a beautiful dog that is related to the GSD.  She is not trying to replace that breed with her dogs or even compare the two, she is just trying to bring out what she feels the ideal qualities found in a family dogs, and there are many people who are looking for the qualities she is trying to breed into the line. I just don't understand why you're attacking her, unprovoked I might add, unless you are possibly a member of one of the other breeding groups(and I suspect that you are) that she mentions from time to time.  If you are, then your a thief and should come up with a different name for your dog.  I've seen all the whining from the websites these groups run about how sshe wants this and that, guess what, Its her line, she's the founder, if they don't like it breed another kind of dog.

Preston & Pia have made absolutely valid points.   Shilohs are no longer GSD's & I imagine Tina would be the first to agree !  This is a German Shepherd Dog message board populated by people who are primarily into german working & german show lines.  Does anyone not understand why we would be critical?  I appreciate the fact that she bred for the qualities she wanted & started a new breed of dog, but at the same time I prefer the modern GSD so that's my breed.  Now lets see what we can do about helping those Panda People get their own breed - the sooner the better!!!!

LOL, good one, sue! 

Sunsilver, if you don't know why Shilohs are a perversion when compared to the FCI GSD standard then I can't help you understand.  Anyone should be able to just look at a photo of a top VA-1 dog such as Ursus for example and then read the standard (he was the standard).  The Shiloh aberation is so far from that it's not worth discussing in detail.  This is a web site based on & dedicated to the GSD breed and no other breed.  I myself and others who frequent this board would obviously feel negative toward someone who comes on this board and makes posts about any other breed than GSDs, especially a breed that is too large to be healthy and live a long life.  And when this occurs one must wonder if that poster is doing so to use this GSD web site and forum to promote and advertise a breed other than the GSD.  Therefore, why don't you folks who love Shilohs stay on your own board and leave this one to those who want to post about real GSDs.  And if you really think that you can improve on over 100 years of controlled, selective breeding of the GSD by starting your own new breed, Shilohs, then go ahead, but how about staying on your own web site.  I can emphatically state that the GSD breed as it has evolved under the SV, even with its problems, is still the greatest and best breed in the world, whether the GSDs are working or show lines.  One or two or three individuals who take this marvelous GSD breed and attempt to create a new one to supposedly "improve it" are only deluding themselves if they think they will end up with anything less than a perverted byproduct which is a genetic joke and a gross aberation.  Why do buyers pay such high prices ($2,500 to well over $100,000) for West German and European SV titled and ranked GSDs and believe that these dogs are well worth it.  When you can sell a Shiloh for over $100K, please let us know!!!  It is a well established fact that these highly SV ranked and titled GSDs obtain the highest selling prices and have the most gross dollars paid of any  breed in the world.  And there are very good reasons for this.  These reasons are the forms of structure and the concepts embedded in the FCI standard and inside the brains of the esteemed breed wardens and top breeders in West Germany and Europe.  They work because when put to use they produce the world's greatest dogs, the West German and European GSDs.  Why else would buyers be willing to pay such prices for these amazing animals?  And GSD breeders in other parts of the world who do their breeding based on these SV GSDs are also creating high valued GSDs which demand high selling prices.

Also, once she introduced the Malamute breed into her lines she competely left the realm of the GSD.  In fact, you can argue these dogs are no more GSD than a Malamute is.  I don't understand how anybody would think these dogs could possibly conform to our GSD standard!

OK, Just want to say something on what a SAR dog is:

TIRELESS!!!!

SAr dogs work long hours. SAr dogs must navagate over difficult conditions. Woods, collapsed structuresetc.

DRive must be there, motivation and focus.

Disaster dogs are required to climb up and down ladders  and walk on rebar etc. A 140 pound dog will have alot of difficulty staying sound dpong this over a number of years.

Just my opinion

Sarah, I was hoping you would talk about SAR.  I was thinking very similar as the SAR dogs I know are smaller and very agile.  And oh so very tireless.

Here's a thought for you Shilo lovers and promotors.  Maybe if you asked, just maybe Oli would add a Shilo section for you guys.  It would be nice to see the GSD section not cluttered with Shilos anymore.

Sunsilver, you say she remember GSD's being bigger when she was a little girl.  Well duh. Everything looks bigger when you're a little kid.  Look back through the historical photos here and look at pictures in Max's book.  I don't see anything looking like a "bigger" GSD.

Preston, excellent.