To ALL Newbies, Consider this FIRST !! - Page 9

I am a little confused.  When reading some of the comments it seems I was maybe wrong about this site.  I love the GSD.  Not all of my dogs carry Schutzhund titles, show tiltles, titles, titles, titles!!!  However, they are a great dog with certified hips and elbows.  Aren't there people in the world that want just a great family german shepherd dog????  I have read some other messages and recall things like a dog shouldn't be bred just because its parents or grandparents won shows?!?  If the dog has a good temperment, meets standards, and is in good health don't those things need to be passed on to another generation???  Not everyone has time for titles, but want a dog that will be right for them and their family.  I feel in love with the dog because of the dedication it shows to family and its overall character.  I understand overbreeding and puppymills and people who breed just to make a few bucks.  However, you can tell those people very easily because as far as I am concerned you can NEVER Profit from breeding any dog.  If you put as much time and resource into your litters as you sell them for then you come out even.  Breeding should be done for the love of the dog and wanting to give that to someone else.  Please if I am wrong about this site someone let me know.  I don't want to be afraid to breed dogs if I find some that I like or who carry a good bloodline.  I will also remove myself from the site if such bad things will be attached to my name if someone doesn't like me.

The "Slightly" displastic I figured was referring to the oops litter,  IF NOT then YOUR spewing CRAP out of your Mouth as usual !!

HUH? I said I wasn't referring to you or your litter, just people in general. Take an extra dose will ya!?

I won't even breed a FAIR HIP so what is this shit spewing from YOUR mouth now 4crack !!  That was BS comment for you to make !!

Again...huh? wasn't talking to or about you in the first place. Put your hackles down fear biter! In my post, nothing was geared twords anyone specifically. I was trying to take the heat off of the obviously scary post. Obviously anyone saying they do wrong or breed shitty dogs is going to get an earful eventually. That was my only point. New people should be welcomed to the board, not frightened away by your post because you got butt hurt one day and decided to go postal on this thread.

I try to not spew crap, just my opinion or facts as I know them.

Von Owens,  basically we have been training,  We have not any pups yet old enough to Title,  But we are getting close now,   With that being said,  I am labelled the Back Yard Breeder from Hell,  by a FEW people on this site who wish to remain annonymous (ie they don't put any information out there, website, email addy, real name, dog name, so on and so on)

I beleive like you do,  Standards, Solid Temperament, and LOVE of the breed.  $ is obviously NOT my motive,  I'm in the hole so far I'll never dig out,  :-)

BUT don't tell these guys too much about you regarding breeding a dog that is NOT Titled,  That is one of the MANY mistakes I have made,  don't ever fess up if you have an illegitiment litter either, OMG you'll be strung up and gutted alive for that one.   

There is a wealth of knowledge here and I hope you'll stick around,  grow some thick skin,  be cautious to give out tooooooooo much personal info and or personal beleif's or thoughts.  

Other wise yes things like     ... 4packs quote  "Just don't go spouting that you breed litter upon litter of pups, out of untitled "slightly" dysplastic parents."    Might be said about you too.   I certainly hope NOT !!

and that was a BS statement for her to make,  But I'm an easy target they have done it many times before....   I have NEVER bred other than the "Ooops" litter a dog that was NOT OFA Good or BETTER !!    I WILL NOT EVEN BREED A FAIR HIP !!!!!!!!   and she knows that !!!!!  But can come here and try to make me look bad to you,  by saying something like she did.

I wish you the best,  but do caution you,  don't give them too much info,  they'll have you for lunch  !!!

VonOwens,

First welcome to the board!

In regard to your inquiry and comment that "dog shouldn't be bred just because its parents or grandparents won shows" is pretty accurate, depending on whom you are speaking to. Many of us, who are breeders, follow the guidelines as set forth. Each dog on its own merits must prove it's worthiness for breeding. A pedigree does not make the dog, the dog makes the pedigree. Not all dogs who are offspring of a titled pair (whether it be conformation or working titles) are worthy of being bred just because their parents or grandparents were.

All of us think each of our dogs is special in so many ways, but not all of our dogs should be bred. Some are just wonderful loving pets. There is nothing wrong with that at all. However, when I breed a litter, I breed to get the best I possibly can. Will every pup in that litter be a winner? Sometimes, rarely that does happen. If you have a litter of 8 pups, if you get three out of that litter that have what it takes to be the dog on the podium, the dog that rescues that child, or the dog that can guide that blind woman, you have to count yourself lucky!  Most litters produce many "pet quality" pups to begin with. So why should there be people who strive just to produce pet quality?

Now let's examine the ego portion of breeding. We all want our pups to do well, to see our kennel name on the dog on the podium. I won't deny it! I can't wait until that happens. It may take me years to accomplish that, whether I do it myself or whether someone who buys a pup from me does that. How is that going to happen, by making sure that my breeding stock is the best it can be. Yes, the pedigree is important, to a certain degree...however, it will be the dog that proves that pedigree, not that the dog will succeed based soley on that pedigree. If that were the case, why would we bother to show, train, title, and repeat?

I have several dogs in my kennel whose parent or grandparent is world famous, as a producer, seiger, that also have working ability. That doesn't mean every dog I produce with from them will be as good or even better. I hope they will, I plan on it, I train for it, I title for it, and I pray for it.

There are enough good litters out there out of proven parents producing pet quality dogs, no reason to set out to do that.

And again, welcome to the board! Don't let the dragons run you off. Sit, stay, learn, contribute and remember we all have a love of the breed, some of us are just a bit more fanatic about it, and believe if you are going to do something, do it right! there are already too many out there doing it less than right.

DeesWolf said it perfectly!

Echo,

Other wise yes things like     ... 4packs quote  "Just don't go spouting that you breed litter upon litter of pups, out of untitled "slightly" dysplastic parents."    Might be said about you too.   I certainly hope NOT !!

and that was a BS statement for her to make,  But I'm an easy target they have done it many times before....   I have NEVER bred other than the "Ooops" litter a dog that was NOT OFA Good or BETTER !!    I WILL NOT EVEN BREED A FAIR HIP !!!!!!!!   and she knows that !!!!!  But can come here and try to make me look bad to you,  by saying something like she did.

I am convinced you are paranoid delusional. I'm not slandering your breeding. If you feel guilty enough to think I am, maybe thats something to think about!

DeesWolf

I am just getting started with my kennel.  I appreciate your comments.  My dogs do not have titles, except for a few AKC shows.  I did not mean to imply that I would breed for only pet quality.  I just found a few people, not on this message,  who seem to think that if a dog is pet quality it is close to worthless, and I could never think that way.  I asked in the message I posted yesterday, New to Pedigreedatabase, if anyone could suggest a schutzhund trainer around KY and I have yet to recieve a response.  I have a dog that would excel at this type of work, but I can't get those titles without going to the right people.  Again, thank you for clearing things up for me and I think I will stay. 

VonOwen,

Good that you are staying, this dusty old place needs new and fresh ideas, thoughts, and comments. I would have said we need fresh blood, but that would bring the vultures.

Depending on whether you want to do schutzhund through WDA or USA I would start with their websites, and see where the clubs are located. Many clubs are listed and have websites so you can see what the club members do. I, personally do not know any clubs in that area, as I am in New England. Too bad you weren't in this neck of the woods, as we have many fantastic clubs, people, dogs, and the folks here are wonderful!

now thats the kind of advise im looking for, handled with compassion and respect , we all love are dogs and need to learn in order to do the best for them and the breed, mine is a champ to me no matter what she produces, and even if not the best ,all her pups will have the best of homes, that is our job, one would hate to miss a good dog for lack of knowledge or opinions of the people who have already done this .I will be happy to listen to all advise from people who know what  they are talking about and do it with respect . thanks for the input  Dee

 Von Owens,

Go to the USA site (www.germanshepherddog.com) for a list of the USA clubs in your area.  There are some good clubs in Kentucky and Tennessee, as well as Indiana that you can train with, depending on the part of Kentucky you are in. 

Until one actually begins training with a club and  a helper, it is hard to say what a dog/puppy will "excell" at, especially when it comes to schutzhund.  Those who train, particularly if they have been at it for a while, all know of dogs that are extreme in drive, with hard, full grips and most impressive on the field, yet have siblings and half-siblings that  would not bite a biscuit with gravy on it and could not track a Big Mac with legs!     Most of the puppies produced from schutzhund-titled puppies are all,  presumably, potentials to "excell" at the sport.  Few actually do.  As was said, the pedigree does not make the dog, although it can tell you what you might be able to expect to see in the litter in terms of drive, temperament, nerve and sometimes health.    And what happens to those puppies who are not deemed likely to excell at the sport and/or in the show ring?  They are sold to pet homes.  Hence, the feeling that there is not need ( with the overbreeding of the breed and heavy representation in shelters) for people to breed dogs that have no "proven" evidence of "breed-worthiness" behind them in order to produce "quality pets."   Quality pets can be found at the pound...and some of them are not even purebred anything, yet they are excellent, loyal, loving, protective pets.    We all love our dogs, and each and evetry  dog is bound to  have some excellent qualities.   But, with the overbreeding already done...

We are all here to learn and share information, so feel free to ask any questions.  There are no "stupid questions."-  None of us was born knowing even the word schutzhund (and half still mispronounce it!!)

Nia

Concerning Wildsteiger Land dogs, they have 1057 with that kennel name posted here. It's no miracle any show line doesn't have one of them in it somewhere in their ped. My show girl is bred 5,5-4,5 on Uran and 5-4 on Yago. Too far back to attribute much to her and I don't study show lines and can't tell you what those dogs produce or bring to the table.

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/317315.html here she is take a look, one of my dogs. My name is Michelle Kehoe, I live in California. I'm not a breeder, I had one litter out of this bitch, decided working lines are more my thing. Nothing to hide.