Schutzhund will die, and GSD people won’t stop it…… - Page 10

The dog did exactly what he was supossed to do.  He would bite for real and his whole entire reaction, position, stance, and perception of the whole situation was TOTALLY different than what I was shown at this so called club.  My dog was in a for real "It's ON!" type of place in his head and THAT's what I wanted and needed to see. 

The point of this story is....had this been my first stop, my first place to rely on gaining knowledge and training I would have been *(&^ed and the dog would have been royally screwed!  Had I not been somewhere else and saw a different way, or had someone experienced to tell me "relax, these people are bone heads" I would have been brainwashed to believe whatever they told me was gospel. I would have always thought this is what a schutzhund club is like.  and how sorry is that?

This person was the same person that contradicted himself when he told me I needed a dog like his but that his dog does not live in the house interacting with his family at all times and that he'd never put a dog like his in my home because I have children.  NOW how in the hell is that supossed to make ANY sense to me.  I need a dog for personal protection but yet I can't have him live in my house at all times and I have to be afraid he's gonna eat the kids???  So I guess I'm supossed to tell the "bad guy" to knock before he decides to rape and mame us and I need to tell the kids they have to live in solitary confinment so that we can let the dog roam the house?? lol  I was even told that this person would not ever even consider breeding Agar because he has nothing to offer.  Do you just want to choke the shit out of this person or not? 

In a nutt shell I realize at this point in my learning process who's full of poop and who's got good intentions with offering guidance but when you have people representing the breed and the sport this way it's pretty freakin' sad to say the least.  And for those who've been doing schutzhund for longer than I've probably been alive I'd imagine this story would outrage you even more than it did me to experience.  The majority pretty much believes a perfect GSD should be one that you can trust to live with your family, be social with kids, animals but yet who will protect you to the dying end if that's what the situation calls for NOT one that you have to worry will rip someone's face off without a real threat.  Incindentlly I wanted to mention that this person who told me my dog was a 1 1/2 was the same person who's dog took a bite when he wasn't supossed to and had difficulty outting when he was commanded to. His obedience was sloppy sloppy sloppy.  I think the only compliment I got on my dog was that they really liked his obedience and it was perfect.  Which made me feel hella good because that's the most important thing to me-having control of him at all costs.

I read about halfway down this post (i love to read but way long to finish), but i am getting the impression that i should just keep my dog as a pet and forget about joining any kind of clubs with him, it all just sound way to complicated,and It sounds to me like the clubs and shows are not a pleasent place to be. I have wanted to look into doing something with my GSD since i got him, but the only clubs near me are hunting clubs(for hunting dogs they set loose on starved fenced in cyotoyes and foxes and see who can corner one first--not a pleasent sight) . It also seems that all clubs are only for rich people..which i am not at all...so what is a housewife on a budget suppose to do with her GSD..?

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/511023.html

Blitzen,

You got it about right. The only thing I will add is that I think most clubs should be WAAAY more tolerant of new people and new dogs. Most people who buy a GSD for the first time (myself included) dont know what to look for if you are thinking about Sch sport. Instead you learn about Sch AFTER the purchase and by then it is too late. So if clubs would help people, even with dogs that won't title, then the people learn for themselves what a good sch dog is, and if they want to pursue that for themselves. And the bi-product of that will be some really nicely trained obedience dogs. My beloved couch potato, Baron Vom Ulf Haus on this site, has no prey drive at all, lots of defense, but no titles. But he did get a real nice education in obedience better than most dogs, people in public always say 2 things, "what a pretty dog" and "wow, he minds you well". I can take him anywhere, leash optional with no worries. That came from a schutzhund training foundation in obedience. Can you imagine if clubs accepted people like that, with dogs like that. If more GSD's were like my Baron then the breed would not be under so much fire (i know many of you have great dogs too, but I felt like giving old couch potato a few props since he is at my feet as I type).

People skills are more important that dog skills if the sport is to survive.....

iluvmyGSD,

I took a look at your boy, he is quite a looker. I love the black sable and always have. I see some DDR in the pedigree which would explain the rich dark color he has. Looks like his dad was better bred (on paper) than the mom which is common. DDR's aren't generally known for their drive being over the top, that said I have a half show/half working puppy from my above mentioned "couch potato" that has drives that can rival the best working lines I have had in the past, including pups from National Sch winners. If you have a club nearby I would at least check it out, keep in mind that most are skeptical about new people and I find if you keep very humble people will help you more than if you get arrogant. One non-schutzhund sport that a lot of my friends do and absolutely love is agility courses. From what I hear it takes just as much training as Sch, but I have never done it personally. Also, I hear flyball is lots of fun, thought about doing it with the ball crazy pup I have, but I am selling him so I wont be doing it. Most of the people I have met in agility are much nicer, take all kinds of dogs, and really do a good job of promoting their sport. Go figure, agility was nothing 10 years ago, now it is like gangbusters. And yet schutzhund "elitists" still cant learn from others....The whole point of my post!

Good luck with your boy, if you live near Bowling Green, KY I can put you in touch with a good club there.....

I'm not sure what happend but there's a part that went unposted prior to the last post so you guys will be confussed....once we got to the club they had my husband post the dog and told us they'd show us he wouldn't bite for real without equipment and that I'll see that the people I bought the dog from misled me.  They staged a scenario (which I was told later by others was very very bad and unfair to the dog) they told us not to give the dog any commands at all and to watch how he'll do nothing.  I laughed initially cause I've see my dog in action before and I was shown and told he is a serious dog when he needs to be...the guy pushes me around a little bit, grabs me, puts a cap type gun to my face, yelling and screaming and the dog is alert but not reacting the way I expected him to...he looks puzzled as I was.

They then proceed to tell me he's a glorified sport dog, won't ever protect me in real life and I have options. I can a. sell him and get another dog (translation, we can find you one for a fee) lol, b. keep him as a pet and play around with him, or c. do sport with him and get a real dog for protection.  I then was told to their standards he was a 1 1/2 at best, they'd never even beed him because he has nothing to offer....I need a dog like his BUT his dog mind you can not live in the house at all times and can't be trusted around little kids (which I have), his dog took bites when he shouldn't have and didn't out when he was told to out....

I remainded compossed and respectful because after all this was their club and I was a guest, I didn't have to agree or like what they had to say nor did I ever have to return but I felt I should be respectful to agree to disagree. lol  The whole way home I boiled and was quite confussed as to what the hell just happend. I immediately got on the phone with my friend who's a k9 officer and told him what happend in detail; he listend then laughed and then said relax, these people are bone heads and wouldn't know a good dog if it bit em in the ass TRUST me when I tell you you got a GEM.  I wasn't satisfied with that though and I wanted proof my dog would protect for real since I live in a potentially dangerous situation and need to know my dog will take you out if he has to.  My friend comes out- no equipment, hidden equipment and the dog was totally different-dead serious.

I think the only compliment they gave me on my 1 1/2 at best dog was that his obedience was perfect and very correct.  This made me feel good because I work hard at the obedience with him and it's essential to have the control first and foremost. But I didn't appreciate being told in a round about way that my dog was garbage-he's FAR from junk. But there's bone heads out there...

Agar,

I feel your pain. I've seen it and EXPERIENCED it over and over and over and over.......Which is why I wrote what I did.

iluvmygsd- best thing I can advise is to train one on one for awhile til you get to know who's who. Word travels pretty quick if you ask around privately.  Then just visit as many clubs as you can get to when you have the time THEN decide if it's something you want to pursue.  Not all bad, you just need to know who's who first.  Good luck you have a pretty boy.

Ok good Schutzhund people out there, I have a charge to all of you who have clubs out there. Lets do a "Schutzhund Awareness Campaign". I personally don't have a club near me that I care to "aware" anyone about, but I am offering my substantial marketing and sales skills to any club that wants me to help. You can even fly me in and have me on hand for PR (public relations) and Q & A etc. I do not want any money, just cover my expenses....

Here is my brilliant idea, get your local pet stores (PetSmart, Pet Supplies Plus, etc, etc) to let you put up flyers in there stores about the event (almost all of them have free bulletin boards). Then you go to all the vet offices and do the same, and talk to the Pro GSD vets about what you want to do. Then you contact local law enforcement and see if they want to be involved in a community awareness program, almost all do especially if the Chief likes his name in the paper. Then you contact local radio and newspapers about your FREE event. Then all you have to do is find a venue like a parking lot of a mall, shopping center, or somewhere near where lots of dog people go and do demo's all day. The cops could have a drug detection demo, the schutzhund guys could wow pepole with a flashy send out, or a dog that does the "flip finish" and lets face it, proper sch heeling looks pretty darn good. Then you end with a bunch of rapid fire "long bites" and BOOM! You just created a massive awareness for your local club. Then all you need are some non-jerky people to answer questions, talk to people about their dog, give em a flyer, maybe a free training tip and do this quarterly. If the USA or other working dog clubs would help get all clubs to do it, man, schutzhund would take off and be on ESPN!!

Who's willing to do some HARD WORK for the sport and the GSD????

Oh the joys of trying to manage a SchH club... far too often it's "damned if you do, damned if you don't"

Another one of the great "pinch points" for SchH growth is the lack of experienced helpers.  Let me make it even tougher... how about finding an experienced helper who is also a nice guy (or gal), doesn't have an ego problem, and willing to take his/her time to work through each dog's individual issues. 

Guys (or gals) like that are few and far in between!

So here's one classic club dilemna... to be, or not to be... friendly open and inviting to all.

Let's explore this quandry...

Scenario A)  All are welcome!

Everybody who expresses interest in the sport is welcome to come check out the action and join in the fun.  Doesn't matter if the dog is good, doesn't matter if the handler is good.  We're all in it for the love of the sport and the love of our dogs, right?  OK, so then you end up with 20 friggin' dogs for one very tired helper to work, 5 min per person on the OB field, a waiting line 10 dogs long for the club's one A-frame, and tracking?  What tracking?  Who has enough acreage for 20 dogs to track??  Training starts at 11 AM, and doesn't finish until 8 or 9 PM to give everyone "quality time".  One very mad helper's wife is waiting at home with a honey-do list that didn't get done.

Newbies show up, some with dogs with potential, some of them with their loveable family pet.  Because we're open and friendly to all, the helper and the TD and club members commit to help everyone regardless of talent or potential.  OK, so then you spend weeks and weeks, sometimes months and months struggling to help the handlers who refuse to do any work at home with their dog - thinks they can train a SchH dog once a week on a Saturday afternoon.  But hey - we're a FUN club, right?  We're not all out ot get on the podium, right?  Well of course, this strategy doesn't work so eventually this person leaves, and all that effort was for naught.  And then there's the handlers who really do work at it, but their pet dog doesn't have the drive, doesn't have the nerves, and again all the supporting crew flushes months of effort trying to get Fido to bark at the helper.  But hey - EVERYONE is welcome, right?  This fiasco continues again for a few months until the handler finally realizes that Fido just ain't cut out for this sport, and they leave, and all that effort was for naught.

Then one day, suppose a guy shows up who is a really, really good helper and dog trainer.  Oh boy!  The helper of our dreams!  He sticks around long enough to get tired of seeing everybody drinking coffee and yakking on the benches, while the poor handler on the field is trying to work a sit in motion and never can tell if her dog is platzing or sitting behind her because no one is paying attention to help.  But hey - we're not SERIOUS dog trainers, right?  We're here to enjoy each other's company and have fun with our dogs on a sunny Saturday, right?  Mr. Super Helper leaves, and then everyone is befundled, scratching their heads and wondering why.

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