Schutzhund will die, and GSD people won’t stop it…… - Page 11

Scenario B)  Scenario A just ain't workin' out.  Let's get our act together and train some dogs.

The member list gets trimmed down to a reasonable number of dogs.  The helper can go home to his adoring wife after 4 - 5 hours instead of being gone all day.  Club members start cracking the whip and chasing people off the benches - shut up and train!  Help this gal with tracking.  Watch that guy doing OB.  Do something to help someone!  And by the way, there are RULES now. 

OK, now we're still screwed.  The people who didn't "make the cut" as bona fide members get their feelings hurt.  One guy is told he can't train because he can't control his dog-aggressive dog (because that's one of the RULES now).  He leaves and his best buddy gets pissed off that we're "picking on the little guy" and he leaves too.  The very nice lady who would make a good club member but has a crappy dog that wears out the helper trying to get a wimpy bark and a mediocre bite didn't "make the cut" and then we lose a very nice person.  The lady with four dogs is told she'll have to pick two to work, but oh she loves her dogs and wants to title them all.

You get the point?  The sceanrios I've described are real events, and not directed at any person, on this thread or otherwise.  I apologize for the wordy post, but this is a quandry with no "right answer".  Either be a "friendly" club and end up with an unmanageable load of dogs, half of which won't be around the same time next year.  Or, get "exclusive" and piss off a bunch of people.

Ideally I would have liked to see our club split into two clubs, one "serious" and one "friendly" but we only got one helper now, and his wife has got limits to her patience.

Sorry again this went on so long.

Yvette

Flip: I don't have a club but I think you got a great idea.  I know in my neighboring community the PD did a demo with their first K9 just recently and it was a huge hit.  Everyone came out to see it and for those who've never seen schutzhund or the type of training a k9 dog has it was pretty interesting for them to see first hand.  The kids especially thought it was really cool.  I hear a lot of people say "wow, I'd love it if my dog could do all that and listend so well".  Then we heard some other people say "there's NO WAY I'd ever put a suit on and let a dog bite me-you gotta be crazy to do that" lol 

Problem is you wouldn't want just any nut job off the street to go buy a dog and think it'd be cool to have an "attack trained" dog.  And I think if ESPN had schutzhund clubs or something along that lines on tv it would be a big hit.  Think of all the people that watch the Eukanuba shows and such every year on tv. I know my kids LOVE that stuff.

Pretty good description of the trails and tribulations of a working dogs club.

It does get old putting your blood, sweat, and tears into dogs that can't cut it or handlers that don't want to try. Then you get the people who get jealous or threatned by the ones who do attain success. It seems this has been the case with almost every club I have ever gone to. Some are better and don't have the extremes but they all have to deal with these things to some extent.

I am independant now. Makes things a lot harder in many ways but I don't have to feel like an unappreciated helper and deal with all the drama.

I am a newbie/novice - when it comes to competing.  I started out obedience training my second shepherd almost 6 years ago (just for fun).  Went to different training places - absorbed different styles over the years and about 1 1/2 years ago got up enough nerve to compete in akc obedience.  I did nq with Libby quite a few times, but finally got the hang of it and got her cd in December, then started Rally with her which I found alot easier because you can go at your own pace, etc.    She received her novice and advanced Rally tiles very quickly.  Last year I purchased  a puppy from Belgium, and started training immediately - in hopes that I could correct the mistakes I had made with Libby.  In addition, I always hoped that I could train in schutzund - but as stated by a few people in this thread, have been a bit initimated about pursuing.  GSD Fan has been a great advocate to the sport and has helped me with the basics and actually handled  Molly for her bh a few months back.  I had been warned that some people may shun Molly because one she is a long coat and two because she is not from working lines, etc., so I was surprised how receptive everyone was at the club (Hegins), which made me quite a bit more relaxed about her trialing.   If it was not for GSD Fan (Melanie) as well as the way the members of Hegins treated me,  I would not be pursing anything further then the akc obedience titles.  I am lucky that my first exposure was to a club that represents the sport so well.   I am scheduled for my first training class in tracking/obedience and protection tomorrow.  Molly is a European show line (Zamp/Asparky) pup from Amulree kennels - who has a lot going for her - but I know from a working line perspective she is not the ideal dog to train for Schutzhund.   I must admit, after reading this thread - I am a bit afraid of the reception we will receive tomorrow but I need to work with experienced trainers if I want to bring Molly and myself  up to our potential, so I have to find a new place to train.   My goal is really simple.  I would like to become a better trainer and to bring Molly up to her full potential.  If that means she is not cut out for protection work, that is fine, but I figured I will not know until I try. 

I appreciate Flipfinish starting this thread.  I think it is one of the best threads I have read here lately. 

Cheryl

Flipfinish

I guess I'm a little confused.  First, you bash SchH clubs and say they don't want newbies or to spend time with them. Then you ask SchH clubs to use your marketing skills to promote the sport.    With your substantial marketing and sales skills, why don't you start a better sport? You want these clubs to contact you about doing a demo after you bash the sport for being unwelcoming.  Why would Sch clubs want to draw more people to their sport, if they don't like new people?

I'm sorry and I am not trying to start an argument.  It just seems that some people on here have a chip on the shoulder.

My club has put on demos.  I just thought you might like to know that.

I hope you don't mind if I use your analogy of golf.  If you went to a golf instructor for lessons and you had old wood drivers and beat up irons that the grips were falling off, what do you think that instructor would tell you?  Do you think he will tell you, "That's fine.  You can just learn on those peice of shit clubs".  I doubt it.  I think he would tell you that you are only wasting your time if you want to learn with insufficient tools.  He would tell you that you could spend years with those clubs and not get anywhere.  He would tell you that the right tools will make it easier for you to learn and succeed.  Don't waste your time or mine........And this guy is being paid by you.  He is not some free service just waiting to give you help and advise. 

iluvmygsd

Please don't base your opinion of SchH on what a few anonymous posters may say.  There is no proof that any of these people have even stepped foot on a clubs field.  Please check it out for yourself.  I have trained with about 6 clubs regularly and all are friendly for the most part.  I say it like that because you will always find someone that doesn't see eye to eye with you. Whether it is at work, on the street, or at the family function.  Also, don't think that you have to be rich.  Schutzhund has people from all walks of life.  To participate in the sport, time is more of a need than money. 

Ideally, if we had more good helpers we could have more clubs, and more choices for people.

I think every club needs to decide "who they are" - what type of club they're going to be, who is welcome, who is not, and then let people know what they're signing up for.  I don't have a problem with a serious club being exclusive, as long as they are up front about who they are.  My own club is struggling to find our "middle ground".  We are certainly NOT a "serious" club, but we can't handle 20+ dogs either, especially since the turnover is so steep.  We are trying to figure it all out - and it SUCKS in the process.

I remember reading one club's web site, one of the "serious" clubs - they train 4 days a week and if you're dog isn't making progress and getting titled, you will be asked to leave.  At first I thought, "wow that's harsh" but after thinking about it I realized it was still "fair" since they published their rules for all to see, and there were other clubs in the vicinity for the "fun" crowd.

What's killing me is the drive, and the time.  My club is almost 2.5 hours drive each way and in order to get two sets in, I'm gone from 8 AM till 10 PM some Saturdays when everyone shows up to train.  Oy!  The work load on the helper has gotten a lot more reasonable since we've "made the cut" and limited the number of teams each Saturday.  But, I can't imagine what malcontent could be spread around by the folks who didn't get the invite. 

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Yvette

I like your idea very much, Flip and I'll put my money where my mouth is and will be happy to do what I can to organize such an event in the south central PA /northern MD area. My biggest problem is I do not train in Schutzhund and I do not know many people in this area who do and I would only be able to offer labor.  So, if anyone around here is interested, so am I. Have gun, will travel, doesn't necessarily need to be happening in my backyard.

Yvette;  Yes it all makes perfect sense and all are valid points.  Unfortunately it's the reality behind it and I guess you're damned if you do and damned if you don't; can't please everyone.  It'd piss me off too if I wasn't into dogs and my hubby was and then I had to give up my one whole weekend day for him to go play with pther people's dogs til god knows when.  I can understand that totally. 

Your idea of splitting one club into 2 would probably be a great idea but unrealistic since helpers are few and far between and then getting them to stick around is even harder.  Perhaps if more club members were willing to alternate doing helper work to give everyone a break may work but not everyone can or is willing to do that I guess.

One way to handle people who's dogs may not make the cut for certain things is to find something the dog IS good at so at least they are working their dog, still having fun, still learning for maybe their next dog who hopefully will be better.

I know one club has 2 training days a week.  One day (Sat) is bitework only and obedience and then one day is for tracking and obedience.  That way someone who isn't interested in the bitework or who's dog can't for whatever reason perform this phase still gets to be a part of something.

Taking everyone in isn't a good idea either cause you can get some off the wall people in this sport...lol  there definately should be somewhat of a regulation in that dept.

Small clubs are probably the way to go-less drama, less politics, less BS more good times!

Hey I'm all for more club members stepping up to do helper work, but besides Chuck, or regular helper, let's see who shows up for training...  oh wait... we're all CHICKS.  Who's going to work Staci's 90 lb GSD?  Or Chuck's own dog, 95 lb "Samson"?  Yeah sure, you know me... I'll put on the sleeve any day, but I sure will get my butt dragged around in the process.  I'm not sure how much quality training we'll get in when I get knocked ass over tea kettle with every long bite.  LOL

Yvette

I remember in the third or forth grade trying out for the choir of all things.  I was cut and I went on my way.  I didn't piss and moan because I understood that this wasn't my calling.  Obviously they wanted to go in another direction.  When I heard Yoko ono, I briefly thought about a comeback. 

Point is, that a lot of clubs don't have many openings.  The last few posts said it all.  Too little time and not enough helpers for numerous new people.  Clubs have to be selective.  They can't take everyone.  Even if you get asked back, it could take years before you are an actual member.  As hard as it is to get into a club, once you are in, it is even harder for a club to get you out.  Nobody wants to be stuck with an acehole.