Schutzhund will die, and GSD people won’t stop it…… - Page 14

I'm with Uglydog...let's see pics Cate!  It's so nice to hear of someone having fun at their club and enjoying their dog for what they are and not hating them for what they are not.  Your club sounds much like the one I've trained with.  Everyone is encouraging and mutts of all sorts are allowed. 

Now I should know better than to argue with funkman but here goes:  You said:

Schuzthund became a novelty in the last 5 years when everyone and his neighbor wanted to breed GSD's after they purchased a nice puppy. Like anything else, the "fad" people shall too pass and the people who have it in their blood will still be around, mostly unheard of, doing what they like. This will also cut back on the over production of the breed itself. People will naturally become uniterested as time goes on.

I disagree somewhat.  I think the majority of people become interested in Schutzhund first and when they go to their first club they decide that their dog just isn't stacked up to what the members think it should be.  I went to a club before I even looked at pups so I knew I wanted a working line dog.  I loved training and I fell in love with the working line which led me to wanting to breed a dog that other people could enjoy.  I bought a couple of nice bitches and a stud dog and had a litter.  Between the pups, promoting the pups, talking to people on the phone and through email, arranging shipping and transport and so on and so on......training went to the far sidelines.  It is not easy when you are the only one doing all the work.  I can see why there are such successful couples out there breeding and training.

So my breeding bitches have been sold to people that have the time and resources and space to breed them to the best.  I kept my stud dog (huge baby that he is) and my pet GSD's.   I'm back to square one basically, way poorer but a little more sane.  I plan on paying off my credit card debt and then getting another working dog (not sure it'll be a GSD) for JUST fun and sport. 

I've always found bored housewives particularly ... inviting.

On a serious note, who can argue with this general assertion?  The problem is that the devil is in the details.  Exhortations don't get us very far.  If your forecast that SchH will die off in 5-10 years were a serious threat, and I don't think it is, perhaps that would be the stimulus needed for change, but in this case change for the better is probably going to have to come about not because of fear of going over the cliff with the lemmings, but because this community (much wider than this database) somehow comes together on the need for change and then what to do about it.

Any ideas on how to carry this flag forward?

I can understand clubs feeling time constraints,  not wanting to give away all their own training time to people who don't really appreciate or make use of it.   And I can understand resources stretched thin,  like the number of available helpers. 

On the other hand,  I have an 11 mos. old working line gsd that I really want to get involved in schutzhund with.   Clubs are pretty far away, and that is ok,  I am willing to drive, but that makes it hard to "socialize" with club members and not feel like you are intruding on their training time when you go to a club. 

There must be a better way out there for "newbies" to get a dog started??    Just hopping right off to jump in on a busy, experienced club doesn't really sound like the way to go,  it sounds like both sides of that scenario are coming away frustrated and jaded and there isn't any room to "meet in the middle."

Busy, experienced handlers have every right to feel frustrated when us new-to-the-sport people need someone to hold our hand and get started with our dogs, and to understand what is happening.   But I also suspect that there is a lot of assuming that when people don't come back they realized it was too much work,  or didn't really want to do it to start with, or didn't have the right dog, whatever...   but  I bet more don't come back because they felt unwanted or unwelcomed.      It's all good to say "well they have to earn respect or the club's time" but how the heck are they supposed to do that when they don't know how or what they are expected to do?

Those of us starting out really need someplace where we can go and get started,  learn what it's all about, figure out if it's for us,  without feeling like we are intruding or wasting someone's time.   Then maybe we'd be ready to move on to "regular" club activities and have a better idea of what's expected from us?  

I don't know how that can be done.    Is there anyplace that takes a "class" route to this..  a beginers introduction to schutzhund,  a paid class, maybe that would be a way to raise money for a club if a willing trainer or mentor could be found?   Maybe that would be a way for newbies to test the waters,   not stress the resources of a club too much,  not interfere with club work,  and possibly help raise money?  

Heather

 The great divide will always be part of the spectrum like sun rise and sun set the same environment just different prospectives.

It,s the  duty of a Schutzhund club to train the dogs that will be correct for the breed (remember no matter what everyone thinks this is a breed worthiness test) no matter how it has been twisted and manipulated by the "sport folks" or the Europeans who,s ideas of lowering the bar and allowing the weaker dogs in to the breed to flourish and profit from there breedings. They have brought about different levels of the competition to allow for dogs that fail in the temperament to be able to do the bite work or for people who just aren't interested in that part of the training, are they schutzhund dogs no they are not.  

I belong to a club that asks only that you train with us for a short time to evaluate your self and the dog and at that time you will get our opinion of the dog ands it,s ability to do the work some are OK, some that have handlers that have no clue, and yes some that we have to tell them that in our opinion your dog just doesn't have the drive for the work, There are other clubs out there don,t stop looking but don,t wear your heart out on your sleeve it happens there are dogs that aren't suited for the work. It is not the responsibility of clubs to work weaker dogs just to see them fail in the tests you can see this happen allot it,s like watching a train wreck about to happen and know that it is out of your hands. 

If schutzhund does fail or goes away (which will never happen in my opinion) it has more to do with the people who so often strive for mediocrity then perfection who say this is good enough. In todays world not everyone succeeds not every one is the champ not everyone gets a prize but the struggle should never end. It,s. true  reward is the journey traveled, That which does not kill us makes us stronger.

You want to blame the demise of the breed here are a few words to remember in the battle  sport people, politicians, peta,S.A.R,puppy millers,A.K.C,profiteers.

In the famous words of Billy Joel    You can cry in your coffee but don,t come bitchin to me.

A true community will tell you the brutal honest truth, because if your car doesnt have drive pull it to a mechanic, you cant put drive in a dog that doesnt have it. A car won,t keep you warm at nite make you feel better when your sick make you cry by looking at you with passion or protect you from harm when your it harms way lay down it,s life for you with out a second thought ...

Hey Flip,    I completly understand what you said up there. I left the schutzhund scene about ten years ago because of the weird - ass folk who frequent the clubs around the country. Many living vicariously thru their dogs. and seem to be very miserable inwardly I am a military man who has traveled much. I have met many different people from around the world. These "schutzund folk" are a different type of person, Mean hearted with  smiles on there faces. always scrutinizing, seldom achieving. I walked into Club blind not knowing what to expect. What I found amazed me, people making dogs do things! By different methods of course!  Observing people trying to become  members of a club is like watching a "Nerdy" guy trying to pick up a conceaded beauty in a bar with all her friends around. Watching the interaction of these groups is a psycologists dream. I dont not know what they THINK they are, but if they knew WHO they were they would not be such nasty people. Life is more than making dogs DO things!

I Love the GSD. For me there is no other animal to compare. The American type  mind set  within these groups are atrocious. As much as I love the GSD, I do not care much for the attitude of the people. another thing I found to be true, It does not matter the race or what area of the country. the attitude in schutzund clubs in America is the same.  I now have the means( Thank God)  to travel to Germany or Europe to indulge in the sport I love so much, Leaving my "American arrogance" behind.

MI and Ugly - I will get pics as soon as I can either get out from behind the leash or can teach the guys to use my rather more than substantial camera.  :-p  I am still very new, and learning alot, but we spent some time evaluating her drives and temperment, and everytime she imrpoved made her look a little better, so I am now welcome to work with the club :)

Another nice thing about my club is that it isnt just shepherd people...there are some shepherds, a doberman, and a couple of schnauzers.  The SchH guy who suggested this club to me is a doberman guy himself...I think these slightly more diverse clubs are a better way to go because you get a slightly more open mind about the drive vs. the breed.

I was another one of those people that had a puppy before doing SchH - hec...I didnt know a whole lot about SchH at all...but I started researching Ruby's lines and she has some pretty cool dogs working dogs in her pedigree which is how I ended up getting interested in doing SchH...and I am glad I learned about it.

I think this sport has a future...but I think people need to have more open mind...more than just GSDs can compete, more than just working line dogs can compete.  Instead of judging a dog by their pedigree the clubs need to actually evalute the dogs and get some hands one.  They also need to keep in mind that not everyone is in it to go to nationals...this is a SPORT...and as such there are going to be people who are in it just for the joy of it and wont care if their dogs make SchH3 or not....some people would be happy with just SchH1...they want the experience with maybe their first dog so they can do better next time or they just want to learn more.  Those people shouldnt be turned away...its not that they are a waste of time, its more that they are learning.  Thats what I love about my club in the short time I have been with them...they are all about helping me learn.

~Cate

Dogone & Ceph,

I know the feeling. Ill tell you this, if for any reason you dont like what you see or want a change of pace,  try PSA.

There are $25 pound Pit bulls or Mutts working.     There is no snobbery,  Im very happy with it and those Ive met thus far. Many breeds represented where I train.

You can watch vids on Youtube and see for yourself. The titles are very hard to come by.   There are no real routines in PSA.  So, For an ADD afflicted person like me, Its really cool.

~Cate,  thank you for posting that!

I guess I'm one of those people that you describe,  I want to get into this not to "compete" but to learn..  about the breed, about my dog, about the SV system, about the sport itself,  about training in new ways...

I DID pick my puppy based on a desire to get involved with schutzhund and learn as much as I can about breed surveys, etc, by hopefully taking a dog through as many pieces of the system as we could.   If we can title, GREAT, but if not,  I will have learned an awful lot about my dog, my training, and the sport and breed in general.  

As far as more ideas...

How about just one session a month open to newbies to visit?  Maybe with two or three new people there at once, they could benefit from one another's questions and learn faster.  Would a club member be willing to volunteer to "babysit" just one session every couple months, and take turns so it's not a big burden on any one?  Then the rest of the month could be visitor & interruption free, less frustrating for everyone maybe?

How about hosting seminars or workshops?   I learned so much by just auditing a schutzhund workshop, it was a fantastic way for me to meet people and see so many different aspects of the training and what goes into it, without feeling like I was interrupting a training session.

Can you give us visitors something to do to help when we visit?   Even simple things..  please don't wait for us to try and make ourselves useful,  we have no idea yet what is needed or wanted!   Feel free to give us a helpful assignment while we are there! 

Heather

My club does PSA also, which may be another reason they are so open minded - I may try it depending on how my girl does in SchH - we'll see...lol...right now she needs a whoooole lot more focus...but she is young yet and I imagine that might also improve with her first heat.

Heather - I think those are great ideas...having an orientations session or a temp. testing session probably would do a whole lot of good :-)

~Cate