Schutzhund will die, and GSD people won’t stop it…… - Page 4

First of all flipfinish this is the pedigreedatabase.com website. This would suggest that this site is related to the breeding and ancestry of animals not animal cruelty or breed legislation. Your concern about these issues really is admirable though and there are many venues available for you to contribute to these causes.

There has been quite a bit of commotion lately about this "split" in breed for due reason. There are some who think the breed as a whole may be heading off track. If one chooses to adopt a certain theory on the direction of the breed and feels strongly about this position based on their own personal research how does this is turn make them "selfish, conceited, stupid, and mind numbingly idiotic, closed minded people"? If through actual experience in working animals one have noticed a decline in the working ability (ie...health and temperment) of this "working" breed does this make one stupid for being alarmed?

You talked about BMW's. If you were to start designing and selling your own version of BMW and putting BMW stickers on it I don't think you would receive such a warm "community" response. So why in turn do you think people that are alarmed at the deviation of the breed from the original working purpose of the breed are idiots?

Flip:

I agree with most of your points, but not all. I don't hink the sport will die off completely in this country, at least I hope not, but I do fear that the protection portion may be dilluted to the point of little use as a measuring stick for working dog breeding programs, largely due to insurance companies' response to an increasingly litigious society, but also due to there being too few people willing to put the time and effort into training for the three-phases of the test and too many people ignoring the stark reality that their breeding stock does not possess enough true working ability to produce strong working dogs.

Another strong point made here that concerns me deeply is the dissent within the organizations. The personal and political infighting that seems to get worse every year, regardless of which parent organization one favors, may well run many seasoned enthusiasts as well an inestimable (sp?) number  prospective supporters completely out of the sport in disgust. Everyone I know is sick to death of wading through tediously-worded e-messages, heavily laced with references to Roberts Rules of Order, accusations of infractions of Club Bylaws, and threats of litigation not only between elected club officers, but throughout the membership. I shudder to think how the insurance underwriters are evaluating the potential for claims made against local and national club officers covered under their club personal liability policies!

Dog clubs, particularly Schutzhund and police sport competition clubs in this country,  have enjoyed excellent liability insurance coverage at minimal cost since the inception of the mandatory insurance coverage rules by the parent organizations. If the public airing of executive board members' dirty laundry is allowed to continue, I too fear for the future of Schutzhund sport in the US.

What to do? Get RID of every one of the people currently placing personal greivances and private agendas ahead of the good of the membership. Clean house! Maybe its time for some fresh new blood in the higher echelons of governing parent organizations. Maybe not, I don't know. God forbid we get "new" officers with even less dedication and committment to "the greater good" than the ones we have now... but to me its clearly time to get rid of a few troublemakers and replace them with active sports-people who don't have the time or interest in promoting personal their own agendas to the degradation of the membership and the eventual distruction of the breed.

My advice and my plan, although I am guilty of not having done so in years: GO to the meetings. Slug through the tedium, and VOTE.

SS- no time to edit, so apologies for spelling and syntax errors tendered in advance...

I commend the author of this post. I think it is a little dramatic one one end but on-point at the same time.

I don't think there will ever be an extinction of dog sport. It is the life passion of too many people. But there is validity to this opinion. I started in French Ring Sport. There has always been a nasty element to the sport. The sport has never taken a "stronghold" inb this country for many reasons but the nasty people and politics are a big reason. It is a wonderful sport, but unfortunately will never grow and is now definatley on a downward slide. I think there is only about 500 members now, if that.

I have never had a real desire to do Schutzhund. I respect it as a sport, it just is not my cup of tea. I go out to Schutzhund clubs. Have friends who compete in Schutzhund, but for the most part I have never felt welcome or encouraged by the people in the sport as a whole. I really noticed this at a recent training weekend. It was a very big seminar. The whole weekend, I mean the whole weekend. I did not hear one person tell another person they had a nice dog when they came off the field. Not one person the whole weekend!

PSA is my sport of choice. I started in it from the beginning. When you go to a trail, people are always encouraging. The cheer for one another, tell them "good job" or "that's a nice dog" and give advice for next time. The sport is growing now, very fast, especially in the mid-west, which has always had a decent French Ring following in the Chicago area. PSA will likely kill French Ring in the US. There are alot of Schutzhund people starting to take a good hard look at the sport as well. Will PSA suffer the same problems as they grow? Who knows. Anytime there is money, ego, and politics involved, people get ugly. Many dog people are not people people, if that makes sense. They gravitate to dogs because they have difficulty, for what ever reason, with people.

AS for this board, I will step up and say recently my frustrations, have led me to "step in the gutter" so to speak. I wil accept my responsibility in that. It has been stated and demonstrated that knowlegable people leave the this board due to frustration. There are people who frequent this board soley for personal agendas or gain. Then there are those who want to use the board to make themselves feel good by telling everyone how great they treat their dogs compared to other people. The people that frustrate me the most are the ones who talk a good game and give "advice" or "opinions" that can be misleading to newbies, detrimental to dog sport, or downright dangerous. Instead of listening and learning from people they want to appear as though they are experts, when in fact they have very few, if any, actual accomplishments. To people with real knowlege, it is painfully obvious who does not. These people's frustrations reach a boiling point and they let that get to them, hence the recent "Rat Pack".  I will take the lead in trying to not let things bother me so much.

There are times in life we all need to step outside of ourselves and take a real look. With that I wll end with one of my favorite dog quotes:

"I have come to see my dogs as a reflection of my willingness to try to improve, as well as an unsparing measure of my frequent failures in doing so."

Jon Katz

Flipsinish,

I agree with you totally.  I think for the most part, trainers and breeders are greedy, selfish, and lack any morals whatsoever.  It's all about the almighty dollar.  One would think with a common passion, they would join together but instead they backstab, cheat, lie and steal to "get ahead."  
Recently, a novice was asking advice and looking for other opinions with a "problem" she was having during training.  A knowledgeable trainer put this novice down immediately...saying everything that she's learned so far was "very wrong."  No discussion on plans or goals for her and the dog...just a flat, you're doing it all wrong....leave the dog home if you don't do it my way. 

This close-minded mentally is one of the reasons why the newbie is afraid to ask questions.  Who wants to train after hearing that???

BTW, the reason why your BMW club doesn't stoop so low is because it's not money motivated.  I'd like to see how this club would conduct themselves if they were all BMW salesmen!

Money motivated? There are people that actually turn a profit from this???

I agree with a lot of what you say but you leave out several valid points that affect the way people feel about our breed and the division that seems to infect it.  First of all, it is still a free country and if people want to argue on a discussion board, what is wrong with that?  If someone truly has a good dog and it can accomplish a sch title then that will speak for itself some day.  Right or wrong?  Schutzhund involves personal participation from the handler of the dog.  So many people come to dog club, sit in their chairs and wait for the schutzhund gods to grant their dog(s) a title.  I say get off  your fat butts and work a little bit and quit making the excuses as to why you can't do it.  If your dog is as good as the next dog, PROVE IT!  If it isn't as good ACCEPT IT!  If I take my shetland pony to the race track and get smoked, that doesn't make my shetland pony any less but it isn't a thoroughbred either.  Anyone that thinks all GSD's are created equal

I agree with a lot of what you say but you leave out several valid points that affect the way people feel about our breed and the division that seems to infect it.  First of all, it is still a free country and if people want to argue on a discussion board, what is wrong with that?  If someone truly has a good dog and it can accomplish a sch title then that will speak for itself some day.  Right or wrong?  Schutzhund involves personal participation from the handler of the dog.  So many people come to dog club, sit in their chairs and wait for the schutzhund gods to grant their dog(s) a title.  I say get off  your fat butts and work a little bit and quit making the excuses as to why you can't do it.  If your dog is as good as the next dog, PROVE IT!  If it isn't as good ACCEPT IT!  If I take my shetland pony to the race track and get smoked, that doesn't make my shetland pony any less but it isn't a thoroughbred either.  Anyone that thinks all GSD's are created equal

is

The future of SchH is not doomed, however growth is an uphill battle.  The issues are far more complex than work vs. show, or such generalities.

Here's my spin... (Warning:  these are just opinions, not cold hard facts)

A) SchH is a demanding sport for both dog and handler.  Not all dogs can do it.  Not all handlers can do it.  Not all handlers have the TIME to train all 3 phases even if their dog can do it.  In our increasingly complex and fast-paced world, it seems to be more difficult for everyone to find TIME to pursue any serious and time-intensive hobby.

B) Most newbies show up at a club already with a dog in tow.  These are often good people who love their dogs, and it's very disappointing to them for someone to tell them, "Your dog doesn't have what it takes to do this sport."  Some will leave immediately.  Some will struggle for a while, and then quit because they're not making progress.  Only a few will tough it out with an ill-suited dog, or get another dog to train.

C)  Mean people suck.  My club has kicked out only a few people over the years because they are not worth the trouble of their company.   The latest guy to get the boot was a young, athletic guy with good helper skills and excellent dogs, but he had a big mouth and we got tired of listening to him stroke his own ego or tear others down.  If our club is smaller because of it, so be it.

D)  Hard core SchH'ers are passionate about their dogs and their sport.  We are also knuckle-headed human beings who are not nearly as noble as our dogs.  I for one have a foot-shaped mouth myself.

Of course, it seems that we sometimes can't even master the basics.  Did anyone else notice the article in the current USA magazine listing complaints about recent SchH events.... dogs crapping in the hotel rooms, dogs peeing in the elevators and the owner just walks away.  If we can't even scoop our own poop, then what is the general public going to think of us???

Yvette

I agree with a lot of what you say but you leave out several valid points that affect the way people feel about our breed and the division that seems to infect it.  First of all, it is still a free country and if people want to argue on a discussion board, what is wrong with that?  If someone truly has a good dog and it can accomplish a sch title then that will speak for itself some day.  Right or wrong?  Schutzhund involves personal participation from the handler of the dog.  So many people come to dog club, sit in their chairs and wait for the schutzhund gods to grant their dog(s) a title.  I say get off  your fat butts and work a little bit and quit making the excuses as to why you can't do it.  If your dog is as good as the next dog, PROVE IT!  If it isn't as good ACCEPT IT!  If I take my shetland pony to the race track and get smoked, that doesn't make my shetland pony any less but it isn't a thoroughbred either.  Anyone that thinks all GSD's are created equal is crazy.  People come to club and try and try and try to get focus or a decent grip or even to stay in a long down and it just doesn't happen some times.  Then when someone with a little experience tells them that it will be difficult or impossible for them to title their dog, they get mad and feel like they are being singled out because of their dog's heritage.  A chimp could title a dog??  You're nuts!  I think that a LOT of the problem of divisiveness in our sport and breed is due to the idea that anyone can and should be able to get a title on their dogs.   The breed is slowly being watered down because of the weak mindedness of people that don't have the stones to handle a strong dog.  So they get a showlines dog and expect a title.  But they don't really want to put in the extra time needed to work with a lower drive, softer dog.  They fail and who gets the blame??  Yep their club.  I know of a lady in Illinois that has had back surgery after back surgery and every time I watch her heel down the field with a dog, it hurts to watch.  She titles her dogs herself!  She has terrible curviture of the spine I believe and she STILL gets out there and does it.  Quit turning this into a pitty party and work your dog.  Get away from the TV or the computer and spend time OUTSIDE with your dog.  Maybe then you won't feel that everyone is squabbling.

Nice post schHBabe.