Sieger show in Canada - Page 4

Thank you, Louise,

Louise tells it like she sees it.  You won't get anything else from Louise.  But for many, we just go to the shows, see all the BS and keep a buttoned lip, hoping that one day, our dog will find favour with the judge.  But for those of us who have neither big bucks nor good friends in high places, that day will never come.  It has become quite clear to me, over about 5 years of attending North American regional and national sieger shows, that one must invest a great deal more than just buying quality dogs, show training the dogs, entry fees, engaging good handlers and travel expenses.  There are friendships to court, favours to bestow and many other tricks of the trade. 

I love the dogs.  I love a good looking dog (who also has, above all other considerations, a strong and self confident temperament). I wish I could compete in the shows at a level above a local show.  But at levels higher than that, politics always are a significant factor.  A waste of time and money.  Been there, done that, seen that.  I leave the scene with a very bitter taste in my mouth.  For those of you who would say, "your dogs were never good enough," well, you're wrong.  My dogs have excellent conformation and top pedigrees.  They are dismissed down to the middle of the pack in their classes because I am not known to the judges, nor a close associate of show VIPs.  I have thrown much money away on this show stuff in the past few years, and until I have a lot more money to throw away, I will just appreciate my dogs, every day, the special friends they are.  I don't need anyone else, no matter how knowledgeable, to tell me they are not good enough.  They are good enough for me!

Wanderer,

this is just how it is! It is a competition and competing is tough. You either play the game or you get out. After every disappointment or embarrassment, you hold your head up high and walk strong! There will always be soembody with better dogs or more money. Cocnentrate on something to accomplish and give it your best. And what is wrong with middles places? Not everybody can be in the top.

Do you know how many times we have been disappointed? Do you know how it feels to be humiliated? I do! The first time was when I showed my girl for a SchH3 and she made a complete fool out of myself, leaving me to run for the helper in the blind. You know what I did, because I was so nervous and forgot all about training? I called her back and she came! The reward: Sufficient in bitework - she left the helper,  it did not matter that she went back again and finished strong. She was 11 times SchH3 with some scores in the 280s. But that sufficient still burns in me after 17 years! Never forgot that!

Or when a female we had just gotten from Germany and was slated for the 2nd place at the 1996 USA Sieger show was dismissed as gun shy. I wanted to crawl into the next mouse hole.

There have been smaller incidences. My sables not getting their deserving placements because they are what they are: sable and not cookie cutter black and reds, or my dogs not sufficiently trained and prepared for the show ring, which is our fault, of course. At the end of the day, you take your dog home and love him or her just the same. Who cares!

And I can tell you something else: In 1995, my husband worked his butt of and prepared our male and worked with him every day. The end result was that our Sam received VA-5 at the USA Sieger Show. Nice placement, but that did not get Sam anymore breedings anyway. It was just for our satisfaction., though we never even received a trophy to show for.  And Sammy's bitework was always so strong that people in our region pushed us to trial him for qualifying scores, but my husband did not have the time and when he did, Sam had become ill and eventually died (anal fistulas). Sam was special because he did not cost a fortune and my husband actually made him and developed him to his potential. If we had him nowadays he also would have finished somewhere in the middle as the quality of our dogs certainly has improved tremendously over the years.

Ok, I am done ranting now. Sorry!

Chris

Chris, years ago, when I first starting showing dogs, I was told something that stuck with me - We are all here because we are not all there .  I'm convinced that it true. If I had all the money I've spent on dogs, I'm pretty sure I could be living on the Rivera instead of in boring old PA.

You just never know unless you try.  And sometimes the road is more valuable and precious to you than the actual placement.  There will always be better dog.  It is a short and sweet time but can be filled with many memories from the time you picked the pup, the first show to the memory of being stuck in traffic for hours on the way back home.  I think it is a great sport.  Sometimes I feel there are many misunderstandings and suspicions.  As Theresa pointed out above, sometimes it is lack of knowledge of the processes in place and maybe even language barriers.  I must say, I am grateful that the SV judges take the time to come to judge our shows.  They are not sitting in First Class being wined and dined on their way over.  They don't know what to expect when they arrive.  They are lucky if they get any time to tour any part of the City they arrive in as they usually fly out right after the show, to go back to their real jobs.   For a weekend show, it is mental and physical stress on them and don't forget the time difference that they have to overcome on both sides of the Atlantic. 

Wanderer, I'm uncertain who you are--apparently, you must know me.  

Indeed, tough politics and competition are "givens" and accepting the results could be one heck of a lot easier to accept if playing field were more horizontal.

Even when we compete at local and regional levels, we see that greed becomes a form of conspicuous consumption that overrules the concept of "fair play". Why do owners of VA-1 dogs (often multple VA's) continue to compete at local shows and, thereby, deny spitzen V ratings to truly competitive local dogs who don't yet have VA credentials. In the same vein, what chance does my multple V-rated male have in veterans class of defeating a VA -1  male (even one who has long passed his prime)?

Even with the stringent measuring that occurred in Canada, an clearly oversized dog having one or more VA ratings from previous years is not going to be measured as over the standard and given the option of leaving the ring or going to the end of the class. Not a chance--such a dog will go VA again because this is the SV tradition.

Why must objective and constructive criticism of this tradition be considered as "sour grapes"? I can gracefully accept that  "Not everybody can be in the top" and that there will always be better dogs and more money--but not if this means flagrantly ignoring the standard.

Louise,  in all fairness to the sport, I don't know what you mean by greed?  What is to be gained when someone invests mega bucks in a dog that goes to the top? It certainly is not the reward of being "the" dog being used as stud.  At least not in this country.  Maybe some make money at this.  But I really don't see this to be the majority.  Most of any profit is reinvested in new dogs and new bloodlines.  I am a strong believer in, if you don't like it, change it from within.  And I don't think broad statements as you issue above, without naming names and dogs, is in the interest of the sport.  It is in the interest of causing disturbance, disagreement. 

If you have any proof as to what you state above, say it.  Do not elude to it. 

"Even with the stringent measuring that occurred in Canada, an clearly oversized dog having one or more VA ratings from previous years is not going to be measured as over the standard and given the option of leaving the ring or going to the end of the class. Not a chance--such a dog will go VA again because this is the SV tradition"

I was at the same show you were at in 2006.  I don't know how you saw all that you saw.  You showed a dog and I showed a dog and we were both in the same ring.  I was concentrated on my dog.  That is all I saw and cared about.  I did not see beer spilling from the table in the middle of the ring. 

Like I said earlier, perhaps there is just a huge cultural and language gap.  Today it does not bother me that German handlers fly in.  Did you not yourself have a handler from Germany to exhibit your own dog? We all try to do the best by our dogs.  That is normal. 

Lighten up, if I may say.  Or do something constructively rather than insinuate things. 

The show goes on.  We all see it and can form our own opinions.  It is a dog show, for heaven's sake!  We need more activity in the clubs than on the internet. JMHO.

I know that 2 of the dogs were American owned that were dismissed. I am not sure if i should mention the dogs and owners names publicly. If you would write me privatley i will give you all the details. Both dogs did pass the bitework and both are schutzhund 3 and KKL 1 for life. 1 of the dogs just received his lifetime koerung in Germany under a very respectted judge a little less than 3 months ago. Both dogs have competed in Germany and in several regional shows this year and this is the first time that they have been measured and dismissed from the ring. As i am not the injured party in this dispute but was witness to it i just wanted to stick up for Top Dog who is the owner of one of these dogs. I thought it unfair to dismiss a dog with a valid koerung while allowing a  german owner to talk his way back into the ring. I just think that whatever the rule is it should be applied fairly to all. There is videotape of the dog biting the helper though i am sure the owner of the dog would never sign a waiver for the tape to be posted on the internet.

This happens after every major show/trial...! I'm on the trial field not the show ring but it is always the same. What was the judge looking at, Ohh it's because of who the handler was, because they have enough money to buy VA-1 level prospect etc etc. 

You could go into something else if competing in SV/USCA with your GSD is unfair... Like Agility, AKC show ring, AKC Obedience, herding or change to showing cats, get into horses and show them, start raising & showing livestock, "BUT" remember you are going to have to deal with the same issues. Because that is the way competition works... You tell me "ONE" sport that politics and judges personal tastes do not influence the outcome!!!!!

Sometimes I wonder what the hell the judge is looking at.!!!! Sometimes the points lean your way and sometimes they do not.  

The Biggest issues i had with the show were as follows.