For The Masses - Page 7

Kenny wrote:  humor me here,

Kenny, in response to your question as to when does a breeder recover their investment in their dog.  You seek the theory of diminishing returns.  Sorry guy, aint gonna happen.  I have yet to see another manufacturer drop his prices.  Think you and i will ever see a BMW or a Mercedes sell for less than a Hyundai.  No more than you can buy a 2 yr old titled dog for $3,000 and compete with a dog costing $10,000 in the same ring.  Standards of quality have existed for thousands of years, the better the quality, the higher the price.  For example, I have never bred either of my VA dogs to any other breeders dogs living here.  I have bred them to dogs living out of state. there are a number of reasons for doing this, here are a few.

1.  The quality of the local bitches are less than desirable.  Most have no titles in front of their names.  The quality of the puppies would only come from my dog.  He cant do it on his own.  Ask any breeder of worth.  When there is a bad litter, the owner of the bitch will never admit it came from their dog.  HA!  Its always the stud dogs fault!

2. Why sell puppies against myself?  If people have puppies for sale from my stud at the same time I do, They will sell them for less money than I.  This happened to me several years with one of my V rated dogs.  ANYONE CAN FOOL ME ONCE!  Never give anyone a second chance to do it again. Let them breed to the lesser quality dogs and then sell them for less as they should be.  I didnt set the rules for determining quality and price, I just want to be at the top and not the bottom of the pyramid.   Breeders are like a Pyramid,  theres a lot more losers at the bottom and damn few at the top.  You can chose whatever path you want in life.  i did with my dogs.

3. People who buy from out of state buyers take a greater risk.  Many breeder advertise their dogs with lots of ridiculous guarantees.  Usually the breeder with the least quality have to offer the most guarantees.  Bottom line most states have a rule that if the breeder doesnt live in your state, you must go to theirs to sue them if they fail to keep their guarantees.  Think about it the mere use of the word "guarantee" should send most people running for cover.  Who can guarantee the health of their children going to school?  Can you keep them from catching a cold, getting hepatitis?  Can you sue the teacher or the school for alllowing the kid to get sick or allowing the sick one to be in the scjhool with them?  Then how in hell can a breeder guarantee your dog for two years.  How can they judge what the buyer will do to the dogs temperament?  Once that dog leaves their household, they have no control.  Ever try to sue a breeder or a corporation thats gone out of business?

At least 99% of the time the people that are shooting at you wear funny clothes and rags around their heads.  They are easy to spot.  A sellers biggest responsibility is to keep his pups out of the wrong hands.  Not always easy to do.

take care and watch out for the bad guys

  TrexShep, thanks for your polite posting! I can rationalize with what you have just said, if i called a breeder about a pup that told me that ,i would probably buy said puppy, because you were honest with me! not all breeders are so HONEST. there are some, but most i've talked to need to do some more learning! pedigree's are great but what are the pup's showing?  i don't know enough yet, but i'm learning with help. if someone as ''NEW'' to this is i am can pick apart most breeders what does that tell you! i'm also glad you can afford the ''better'' dogs and have the time and money to travel, train and show them! for most uninformed people out there wanting a good ''pet'', pay that price isn't rational? don't know why. you should have heard people i work with when i told them what i have in my 3 dogs, there way of thinking is' '' it's just a dog''. i have 3 quality dogs!  or atleast i believe they are good quality dogs! now being new , I personally , don't think my wifes female would sch. title, being new i also am not sure of anything! the man that imported her for us and trained with our dogs however does! so we'll see? my dog, i have no doubt in my mind he can do anything! he's a fast learner, even though the wife is corrupting him while i'm gone! hugs and kisses? that must be a girl thing? but never the less she has taught him that, along with retrieve, the girls clothes from their room, for the laundry! let's them on the bed and the new furniture I just bought! god only know's what else????? then again i don't really think he's ''my'' dog anymore, more of ''her'' dog now!

dawgs, ha, i brought up judge judy because my wife use to make me watch it with her, although i like you hated it, there was nothing better to do! now on the otherhand, i have dog training to do , or atleast that will be my excuse to leave. i don't have a problem with people posting factual experiences with breeders! but how many of us have read where someone comes on here heated about whatever breeder, starts spitting names, unknown facts, lies , whatever it takes to get the mob going! then all the sudden the breeder chimes in? now i've read a few and there are some here that post they want to hear both sides, and usually their the ones that post back ''i told you so''. regardless  it the bandwagoner who don't get all the facts first that piss me off! to prove this i'll throw myself into the fire here!

 1./    i came here, asked questions! i bought my dog ernst! some of you will get to meet him in the future and at that point i will take any and all suggestions, till then i ask you just read and keep an open mind!

 2. i had actually sent a deposit before i started asking questions, here on the message board. so i was commited since word is my bond, if i say i'm GOING to do something it DOES get done.

3. i asked about the heredity of hd, the passing it from parents, stated that i would like to breed one day! wow here came the mass's. my dog has 2 nz parents, yes i know not the best! BUT by the SV's own standards is breedable right!  continued in next post.

continued,

now i'm going to submit his pre-lims here when i get home and can post them ! i will take all comments as i will be asking for opinions!

4. instead of saying well kenny,  after we see how his hips are rated, if he earns titles etc etc. we'll judge then. i got replies of,

''This dog belongs into a pet home if somebody wants to take care of it. May be construct him a little wagon to move around when he gets older, or better yet feed him magic pills and then let the vet operate on his hips! Why post so many questions and then go out and buy the worst possible dog? You have shown again to Germany that America is a garbage dump of dogs, and you have jeopardized all efforts by the few reputable American breeders to achieve International recognition. Why give Americans a good dog, why not leave them stranded on this big island called the American continent? They don't know what a dog is! Very sad!''

5. mind you my dog was bred in EUROPE under their RULES and imported to the states!

now as i've stated i asked most all of these questions AFTER purchasing my male!  not all of the replies were that bad a few were very nice! after some of you meet my dog you can tell me if i bought '' the worst possible dog''.  now , yes i'd like to breed! doesn't mean i'm going to use my dog to do so, i may, maynot! if i do breed my male i will give the first litter away to deserving, trainers and families! i have a job and don't need the money from breeding, period, the great thing about the military is they CAN'T fire you!  now there will be rules to getting a ''free'' dog! if and when i decide to do this experiment i will post ALL results! and i don't want 1 nasty reply, as i've stated i stand to LOSE on this if i decide to do so!

veronica , i would like to talk to you about some things and will leave you an email!

clewsk9's, animules, veronica, Flipper29 and a few others here that have HELPED would all be offered a puppy first!

sincerely, kenny

Kenny, I'm betting if Judge Judy was where you are now, she'd get "fragged" in about three minutes.

Ultimately, what's yours IS yours to do with as you will. But, that doesn't mean people will all agree with it. I don't assume that you are looking for "acceptance", btw. Just saying not to take it to heart when people disagree. GSD owners seem to be like GSD's. Opinionated, not quick to bond, and not always willing to be led instead of being the leader. 

Good luck.

Oh, and if your wife is doing all that with your dog, you just need to kiss that dog goodbye!

Dawgs,

  i have to laugh about the judge comment i bet that would be a training accident!

 you are also spot on with the next statement! i want to be optimistic of my dog! i'm not stupid, he will be ofa'd at 24-26 mo. but in the end, i'm looking at my dog as a whole! i'm new ,i don't know everything! but i'm trying to learn! 

i'm not going to argue with the wife over who's dog he is, i'm not dumb, i played the you won game and got what i wanted also, thanks ek's! as she sold me a wonderfull puppy!  which in the end is what i wanted all along !

kenny

GoldenElk,
Though I make every attempt not to bash on here or life in general I do need to respond to your post. I have debated this for some time now but finally decided I needed to share. 

I hope one day you will get on your knees and thank God for all of the men and women who have served this country so you could spout off your hate towards the same government that gives you the quality of life you have. You are pampered and are arragant enough to voice only what you get from a very biased media. Talk to the people that serve. 

Kenny, I fought in a very unpopular war. We had no support back home. I believe a man can go to hell and back if he has the support of his family our country. You are very privileged to have a country that honors you. 
I was drafted, had no choice but didn't even consider not serving my country. Vietnam forever changed my life.Last year a young Captain I have known for most of his life returned from Iraq , came over to visit. We went out to a resteraunt and in our conversation he thanked me for serving and for putting up with the ingratitude of our nation. It was the first time in 40 years that I have been thanked. I could not stop myself from crying.
GoldenElk, If I had it to do all over again, and if I had the opportunity to flee to Canada like so many did because they SUPPOSEDLY did not support the war, I would do the same thing over again. This is my country and I love my country. I believe in my country and I realize that sometimes we have to do unpopular things around the world. I also realize that I do not, unlike you, have all the facts and  must trust to some degree. I will not however put my trust in a media that obviously has a hidden agenda. 
I am tired of hearing from those that love to take every opportunity to slam our government, our leadership, our policies, our motives, and our integrity with out being held accountable. 
I can promise you this, one day you will not have the freedoms you have if you have it your way. And thanks Kenny.
 

Olskoolgsds  Thank you for your views on that. Some people do not realize what it took from many of our soliders that fought in your war and these wars. Many lost thier lives, thier loves ones, limbs and souls to do what they do (did)  and for what?  A nation that is ungrateful and rude.  Many will not take the time to sit and talk with people (like you and Kenny)  to learn the REAL history of our nation from people that actually were there and lived it. But yet we see in our history class our history being changed and forgotten. It is a crying Shame.

My son is in ROTC in high school and is wanting to go in to the Air Force and I am Dam Proud of him for it. This is his country and his freedom as much as it is yours, mine and every one else's. Instead of people protesting they should be praising our young and old for what they do for our country and our people. The Military personal, Police officers, Fire Fighters and so on make very litte compared to our football , basket ball, and base ball player and they do NOTHING but play a past time sport !!!! How messed up is that??? And don't give me the CRAP "well they have a choice" if all of us acted like all these ungratful , protesting rude people did this Country would not be LAND OF THE FREE. But hey, this world is going to hell in a hand bag fast enough maybe when thier protesting A$$'s are burning maybe they will realize it (too late then). God Bless you OLSKOOLGSDS, KENNY and every other SOLIDER that has servered our Country PROUD!!!!

This is my son after ONE (freshman) year in ROTC

DAM RIGHT I AM A PROUD Mommy!!!!!

Howdy,

I thought about it for a while till I decited to post :

1. Search the message board for postings of Kenny & find out what they were about.

Kenny has been given many advice, and good advice at that. Your dog Ernst, is not out of a breeding that would be desireble by many of GSD enthusiasts. Now I do not know to much about the lines he is out of, but it sure scares the heck out of me when looking at the hip status of his ancesters. Still, you are right, Ernst might have good hips, but breeding with him is a gamble, not more not less.

But aparently, you just dont care, you will do as you wish, because you can.

To call any one a " disgrace" because he/she is not willing to sing your tone, is imo uncalled for. I believe you get so beefed up, because you did not do your homework before  you did aquire your first dog, and are now dissapointed that not everybody agrees with you. And, hey, you are even entitelt to that. To take this board to a discussion like this thread, oh well ......

This goes out to all Military personell, their familys, their sons & daughters......may you all stay safe & and return to your loved ones soon & healthy.

Regards Ulli Dresbach 

trexshep-------------------quote>>>>.

Unfortunately for most of the South and southwest, many of their buyer cant find purchasers that will pay top prices for a good dog.  Though I get emails all the time from out of state buyers in the south, its rare I can sell them a dog for the price they would pay here in NY.  I lived in the south for a long time.  Few pet people can rationize their thinking enough to pay $2,000 for a puppy.  Granted I preferred to live away from people then, but many were raised with hunting dogs.  I actually had a hunter in South Carolina allow my shepherd to run deer with his hunting dogs.  Guess its all in how you want to raise them.  Back then(in the 70's) I had to cut my prices in half to sell there from what I was able to get in the Miami area.<<<quote

i read this and i just had to scroll right down and post...........thank u for making a point for me....i live in louisiana and everyone around here does not care if a dog is 'titled' if its not a hunting dog.....oh i wish i could copy another thread where i was speaking about this recently----people around here doesn't even know what shutzhund is---so they would never pay that amount for a dog just because of that title...so my question was...there are not many breeders near here that have GSD's but the local cops do want them and they can't afford to import them, sooo...if a local person breeds a couple times a year just for that reason, why must they have to get dogs 'titled'? i can understand the dog needing good lines and having hips checked but why a title that they can't pay for / or care about in the first place?  my dog so far has been a great dog, great with my kids and smarter than any mutts i've ever owned (till him didnt realize just how smart or easy to train a dog could be), now, i never want to breed my dog/deal with puppies--like i said before not a headache i want---but we have a few friends that are cops, and if they had a female but needed a male to mate her with, so they can have future litter for the P.D. , if i said yes (would never charge the...so not for $) would that make me a bad person? if my dogs pups would be working, why would that be a bad thing?

P.s. kenny--you have a lucky wife...can tell by the way you talk about her....i think you love you dog so much because he takes care /defends your family...now you feel you need to defend him....i completly understand....if you know your dog is great at what you got him to do....then you don't need to get a title to prove that...

Trexshep, I would like to correspond with you concerning dogs.  Some of what you said struck close to home, LOL, and though you have show dogs, and I have working dogs, I think we have more in common than not as breeders.  Would you please let me have your email address?  Mine is:  sales@worthykennels.com

Thanks~ Veronica