I WANT Dogs Trained !!! anyone can help ??? - Page 6

Mystere-ROFLMFAO!

I would like to ask an interesting question because I am curious as to what the response will be for some people....why do you title your dog?  Weather you put the title on yourself or you send the dogs out for the titles or even purchase them with a title; what is your purpose?  Do you do it for self gratification, for the sake of the dogs proven reputation that it can and does work, or do you do it for the monetary purpose of marketing puppies?  There is no right or wrong answer just curious how many people will answer honestly.

Multiple reasons for us.  One big reason being Schutzhund is what these dogs do.  For us it's letting them work at something they so obviously enjoy doing.  For us it has become a love of the sport.  We don't always have time to train as much as we would like but we keep going.  It may take us a bit longer to get titles because of that but we keep going.  We may or may not breed some of the dogs we are working.  It doesn't matter. The love of the dog, developing and working as a team is what matters.  Our dogs are very high drive dogs, this is a great outlet for their energy.

animules- So to help me understand this argument (which I think I "get it" as far as Echo goes) I'm just wondering if she weren't breeding would it matter to anyone that her dogs were not titled or even capeable of a title?  I agree Sch is what these dogs do or at least what we set out our hopes for them to do-not all are capeable of it or can excel at it and that is something as an owner you have to come to terms with when you have a dog that's just not coming along. So IMO you just don't breed that particular dog but still can have fun with him/her to the best you both can do. 

From what I gathered Echo participates in SCH at a club... yes?  My advice if one wants to breed and that is what your "calling" in life is then go invest some serious money on a couple top titled quality dogs from a reputable kennel and establish a program that you can be proud of.  Regardless if a dog is titled or not if it's crap it's crap; and I don't know her dogs are (I'm not implying that since I've never seen them work) but you can't polish a turd....it is what it is so just be honest about it.   

I myself am not a breeder but I refuse to own garbage anything so hence I pay dearly for quality simply because that's just me.  I've invested more in my dogs than some people invest in a car but it's what I love, it's what makes me happy and brings me enjoyment.  I train with my dogs because it's something as you said they were bred to do, love to do and they are very good at it- better than I am actually.  I can't take credit for their training or their titles but they proved they were capeable of performing in the sport and breed worthy.  If we never achieve another title that's ok with me- we're still having a blast training.  But to breed something weather it be titled or not that you yourself know in your heart of hearts should not reproduce is a huge injustice to the breed and the future puppy owners.

Exactly what Animules said is how I feel too.  I really enjoy all aspects of the sport & I feel like it's a great fway to bond with my dog.

I'm confuses....are we talking about her as a rescue or as a breeder???

Agar, I can only answer for me.  If she was not breeding and advertising her dogs the way she does I would not care if she bothered taking the time, energy, cost, and commitment to get them titled.  If she wants her own pets, fine by me.  

One thing to keep in mind, she claims to be in a club.  It has been asked by numerous people which club and who is the TD that says her dogs are as she claims.  We have never received an answer.  At that point you have to wonder how valid that claim is.

May I suggest a very good article When Rescue evolves into Puppy Milling   http://www.angelplace.net/Angel/Rescue.htm  and it may be birds but doesn't this sound familiar http://www.birdboard.com/forum/aviaries-breeders/3537-breeder-rescue.html  I especially love the line re why the poster posts. Guess they have trolls in all species.

A small point if I may which I often see in Schutzhund clubs. Coming once a week or once a month and "giving the dog

a bite" does not a Schutzhund dog make.  Schutzhund is a THREE part sport - obedience, tracking and protection AND all done the same day IN a trial. IF you CHOOSE NOT to trial and title your dog then perhaps you can claim to be training your dog in something but it is NOT a Schutzhund ( translate the German people) UNTIL it has a title.

EM me thinks you doth protest too much. All the screaming and shouting in the world will not make people think better of you and if you did not know in your heart of hearts that what you are doing is wrong you would not be looking to so desparately to change their minds.

This is just my opinion and no one else's. I am ashamed that you are part of the GSD world. To charge for a rescue never mind $1000! is SHAMEFUL. The concept of rescue is to GIVE BACK not to make a profit. "To those that much is given , much is expected".  Also related to the concept of noblesse oblige [(noh-bles oh-bleezh)] the belief that the wealthy and/or privileged are obliged to help those less fortunate. From French, meaning “nobility obligates.”

I  know many people including myself who put months of time and energy and money into rescued animals NEVER expecting a penny back. And many of us have kept those who couldn't or shouldn't be placed. I had a Border Collie show up on my front lawn 3 months before I was due to be gone for a month. A very tough dog for a BC (I think she would have done fine in SchH) with typical BC energy and drives she was not easy to find a home for wh/ I needed to do because my bitch and her HATED each other. The right home had not come by the time my trip did so she got boarded right along with my dogs for the month I was gone ( to a country w/ a quarantine that the dogs could not go to). This was not an expense I expected or wanted or particularly had the money for and no the kennel gave no discount 'cause she was a stray but by taking her in I had OBLIGATED myself to her care. No one reimbursed me for this NOR did I expect them to!

Other board members a suggestion if I may. A closed mind can not be educated or changed. You've tried - it's not working nor will it work .My suggestion is you try "shunning". Either do not respond to EM posts because yes they are all about HER and not the dogs or better I suggest every time she writes resond with "Shame Shame". That way if anyone is researching her on the web they will quickly gather there is a reason to look further.