Qustions about culling? - Page 5

Hey GARD,

hope you are fine & allright.

Breeding GSD's is about breeding a working dog. Sadly & nature dictates just that, not every GSD born has what it takes to be just that hard ass working agressiv dog. PERIOD Not more, not less. But what I can agree on is : A GSD, no matter if out of "working" or "show" line, should have the versability to do different jobs. One may not be suitible to be the "hard ass" protection dog, but maybe strive in herding or obidience or be a therapy dog, just somely depends what the new owner of this pup, is capabel to detect in his pup. And then of course has the knowledge to promote his pup for his future task.

As to " mothers cull their sick pups " , you are right. I, and I only speak for myself, have decided to let my female make the decision, wether this or that pup lives. This was not an easy task for me, but I came to the conclusion, when mummy made a decision, it was the right one for this pup. I will not start to bottle feed a pup that is rejected by the mum, as it almost every time turns out to be wrong decision made by us humans. Most times this pup will die anyways, just a few days later.

I dont want to even imagine if all GSD's bred are hard ass - oh,boy would that be a mess !! Your statement, that there are allready 2 different breeds - hmm, I guess one could agree to that . But me beeing a "hard ass GSD junky" could not stronger disagree - IT SHOULD NOT BE LIKE THAT !

Simple, lets us agree on, that we disagree in some fields, but let us agree that we all love our GSD's !

All "working line " GSD's do not actually work (Nor do all of them have the cabability to do so ), and also not all "show line " GSD do show ( because they do not have what it takes) !

I'll have a beer now !

Regards Ulli

I think most intentionally bred GSD pets come from BYB's, puppymillers, and so-called legit breeders that have multiple litters on site at any given time and who have never even seen most of their dogs.  Pets are also the result of careless dog ownership and are usually of mixed parentage. 

Keeping in mind that tending was the original job of this breed, it might be a bit arrogant to suggest that herding/tending dogs are showline "washouts". Some might think that beeding for a tending dog is more in keeping with Herr Captain's master plan that breeding for hard ass, sharp , aggressive dogs. Which came first, the chicken or the egg? 

There are thousands of "shelters" (boy, what an irony) that put to death (I hate the childish term put to sleep) millions of dogs a year in the U.S. That is the modern form of institutionalized culling. Only, it's the culling of adult dogs. Too bad, they can't cull anyone who walks in there to dump their dog.

Hey GARD,

one more thing :

Get off your money thing, it is not very apropriat. Regardles  what you do, you will always have in a litter some that wont meet what you intendet for them. That is called "NATURE", and nothing we can change. And this is just good so, or do you really want to tell me that you weed out at 8 weeks what is suitible for work or not, and kill the rest ? Get real, we want that GSD that suits a family and be their companion ! Money plays , I would say for the majority of breeders, a role, but not the major role why they breed to beginn with. Ulli

GARD is a LEO he seems to forget GSD's were bred for more than protection work. Friendly reminder, not everybody wants or needs a biting machine. Though I do agree it would be nice if each and every GSD bred, was proven in some way shape or form, his or her abiltty to perform a job and do it well.  Be it police work, detection, SAR, Seeing eye dog, hearding or one of the many dog sports available. I can't back any breeding program that doesn't at least use dogs not only "capable" because everyone claims this, but proven at a job. Show titles mean little to me, other than the dog is pleasing to some judges eye. Just because you got a Sch1 on your dog, doesn't mean he is good enough to breed. If he got high 90's accross the board, well then maybe you might want to use him for "a"  litter and see how he produces himself but don't pimp him out just yet.

I agree with the idea of culling each and every litter out there. Maybe not in the sense of puting pups down but at least limited registrations so we can "try" to avoid everyone of your pups being sold, also being bred by unscrupulous owners. There are just too many people out ther who think, "my dog is AKC, we should breed em." I know many disagree and think it's rude or "how dare you make me do something, like title a dog before I can do what I want with him" How unAmerican, yea yea I know. Boo hoo. How else to keep the uneducated at bay until they become educated? If they want something badly enough, they will follow the process. Those who care about a quick buck or cute puppies will be put off by this at least.

Back to culling, it's the way breeds are formed or reformed, a very neccessary process in any breed or animal. You cannot produce greatness without it. 

I have a Strcikland book from back in the early 80's and she gives instructions to have a pail of water near the whelping box and if you must cull to wait until the dam is occupied with giving birth or caring for another whelp while the deed is done.

Hi Ulli, At the risk of sounding redundant , or worse, obnoxious, I'm going ot ask my question again:

I would be interested to find out whether there are any discernable differences between the puppies raised with the mother and the puppies raised with the foster mother from 10 days to 8 weeks.  I ask because there has been discussion regarding the "formative" early days of puppy socialization developement.  Also many feel the bitch is perhaps  as important for her mothering skills as she is for here genes.

I have always felt that in a uniform litter, puppies develop at different rates, but usually all end up at very similar places.  If there is no discernable difference between the pups with the foster vs the pups with the mother, then perhaps I am right?

I lost a number of puppy sales when I was breeding due to my contract that said basically - this is a companion quality dog, not intended for breeding so must be neutered. Some didn't want to sign that contract, they thought they should be able to do what they wanted with their own dog, so I didn't sell them a dog. Of course they got one elsewhere.

I know a lot of breeders in all breeds and most require neutering, or neuter the pups before they are placed or sell them with a limited registration. Of course the limited registration is not foolproof since so many splinter registries have sprung up it is now paossible to "register" almost any dog, purebred or not. 

When I "got into" GSD's the one thing that stuck me the hardest was how few breeders  I talked to required neutering or even used limited registrations for their companion quality dogs. A few even offered me co-owerships on pet quality bitches for reduced prices if I would whelp one litter out of them and give the resulting pups back to the co-owner.

Hi Sue,

as I have not yet had the problem of placing any of my pups, it is hard for me to tell. But sure enough, amongs breeders we talk about this stuff. The major thing is always : If you find a GOOD foster home for you excessive pups, you will more likely not be able to determen any differences. If, for whatever reason, the foster place is not so good, the pups are not as socialized as you do at home , you will definetly see a difference once the pups are reunited. Also depends a lot what the foster place is byfeeding, how much time they spend with the litter and esspecially with your pups. But as with all things, this can be the other way around as well : The foster pups show more than the one s you kept !!! HMM, time to rethink the whole prcedure !

Hope you are fine.   Ulli

When someone says "hard ass", can this dog be one that is good in the house and with the kids, as well as being a "hard ass"?  Would a dog who goes to training and bounces back from hard correction to try harder in a different direction, compresses the sleeve like nobody's business, and has that hard "I can eat you if I wanna" glint in his eye when he goes toe to toe with the helper--- but comes home to let the kids maul him with a doggie smile on his face--- is that a hard ass dog?  When you say sharp, are you saying sharp-reserved, or sharp-aggressive?  Low threshold-sharp?  Just trying to get an idea of what perspective you are standing on and looking out from.  When I think "hard ass", I think of a dog that is nearly useless, because it is only good for sport and has to be kept in a kennel, whereas, a great family dog who is also a great sport and/or real work dog (and they DO EXIST) I would not consider a hard ass.  I'd consider him....a family dog.