Out-crossing GSD with other breeds - Page 9

Yes, I understand that.  Don't we all at this point.  You and I and the rest who have been discussing this and do not want to lose "face".

I am not trying to win the argument that this type of cross should be done.  I have stated several times on this site, in the past, that I think it is a bad idea.  I understood that all of you out there can Google and can read what this writer is about, yet I still provided the links so that you could.

Having said all of that, it does not make her information a lie, just because you or someone else WANTS it to be.   Her information appears backed up and credible and no one from Germany associated with the SV, has come on here to deny it, and I predict that none will.  She dots her i's and crosses her t's, and cites exactly where and how she obtained her info.  Additionally, I was actually astounded when I first read her claims about the stud book and about Horace being 1/4 wolf, and after extensive research, could not disprove her.  As I have stated before on other threads, I collect comic books and 1st Edition rare books, and that is why I have the first english translation book she describes.  I also have a later edition that I use for reference (when you are a collector, you really don't handle your books, but instead keep them in Mylar and put away in a stable environment to preserve them, as they are paper products and suffer tremendously form humidity and handling), and it is exactly as she describes it.  "Revised", leaving those parts out.  I respectfully request that anyone out there, that can disprove her assertions and my assertions in line with hers (about the formation of the breed), do so, on here.  Or, just say "wow, what a revelation", without accusing her of lying, accusing me of lying, or calling either one of us ignorant or worse.  The operative word being "prove", not assert.  Capital letters, pictures of me wearing a pink TuTu, vulgarity, six LOL's, or any of the other sundry methods that are usually used when some of you are losing a debate, just won't work.  That dog won't bite.  (another retarded old saying, that IS meant to be negative).

Bottom line is, she cites her facts and where they come from.  Someone dispute it with their own facts or move on.  Ya lost this one, but there will be another tomorrow or the next day.  Promise.

So how about board members- do we have the means to putting this to rest for once and all. 

1. Does any one have the original first edition German copy of the GSD in Word and Picture? Are you willing to provide copies of the appropriate pages?

2. Are any board members who are native speakers willing to provide the translation?

3. Can any German members can access to the SV records and make copies of the Zuchbuch entries mentioned in the Dresselhaus article? Is there information present that will allow us to verify that they do refer to or speak about actual wolves or wolf/hybrids and are not as VKF suggested just about a dog named Wolfie.

4. Once again a request for our German friends - can you find out about the use/history of  the term Alsatian Wolf Dog in Germany?

Do Right Until we are able to do this I think you and I have to just agree to disagree. No attack or dissing intended but sorry  I'm in the information business and I rely on proven facts not hearsay. 

May I suggest we get back to  your initial question to Jeff - "What would you breed to what, to get the correct GSD for the future? " since we have seemed to have gotten several good answers to that. I would like to see more responses like VKFs (who I agree with by the way wholeheartedly)  that outline several different steps.

If that were aimed at me, rest assured I am not concerned with either of us "losing face" because it is only a discussion not a battle. Not to me anyway.

I also doubt the SV is going to address this woman who seems to be very much on the edge of legitimate circles. Or perhaps they have in the ten years since the article was written.  Regardless, I don't understand why you would feel as though you're being attacked. Just because she doesn't site her references doesn't mean anyone is attacking you personally. Certainly no one called you any of the above names either.

You seem very agitated even though I am trying very hard to be non threatening to you. Since you seem to perceive a threat where there is none I only want to reassure you I have no interest in a "spat".

She gave a brief history of the GSD, covering a hundred years on one page.  If she states that the name was changed to the Alsation Wolf Dog, and you have not heard this before, it does not disqualify her other statements.

I too am old enough to remember hearing of a dog called the Alsation, but I was young and I did not realize that it was one and the same as the GSD.  I thought it was another breed.  I am also old enough to remember when here in the U.S., the German Shepherd Dog was just called the German Shepherd by some and the "Police Dog" by others.  Why could it not have been called back then the "Alsation Wolf Dog" by some (since it greatly resembled a wolf back then to many), and called something else by others?  Police Dog, Wolf Dog, whatever.

I at least see that you have the shutzpuh to at least consider that she and I may be right, you just want proof.  And, the Germans are normally very good at record keeping and what she cites are their records.  Surely, with her comments being on the web for ten years now, someone with access to those records would have discredited her and proved her false.  But no, a Google does not provide any such info.  hmmm......wonder why?

Someone who is a member of the SV in Germany, find out the "true" facts from their records and embarass Ann and I.  PLEASE...............................................................................

Otherwise.................well, you know  

Our posts are crossing over.  Sorry.

A-dog:  I get agitated with those (you and others) who I have stated that I do not want to have discussion with, because you know I do not and yet you keep referring to me on threads, whether someone else initiates them or I initiate them.  I can just ignore your and their comments, or I can set the record straight or clarify something that you don't understand or question.  I do not want to converse with you.  I do not like you.  You accuse without any proof or consideration of the facts, but just what you feel like saying.  Truth be damned.

I am agitated with you in that, in the past you have made slanderous lies and insinuations about me, with not a shred of evidence or proof, and when I provided proof, you twisted it and contorted it, even though it was rock solid proof, to make me look as bad as possible.  You now "talk" with me, always prefacing your comments with some kind of "I'm not attacking you, but" line.  Then you go on to attack me, with snide inuendo remarks.

You have never apologized to me for the CD thingy, you have never apologized for the Marines Corps/Navy thingy.  And if I remember correctly, you even doubted I was a police officer" (I get you, Sue and 4pack mixed up sometimes because frankly, you are three peas in the same pod (another retarded old saying)).  Although 4pack is not as bad, so maybe she is in the pod next to you and Sue.

And you wonder why I am agitated with you.  You chose Abhay as your compadre.  A proven and admitted lying coward, over a man that fought for you and your country so that you COULD come on here and spew whatever you want, and dedicated his life to only doing good, nothing else.  Live with it.  PM Abhay and converse with him.  I do not want to.  I often apologize.  As a matter of fact, whenever it is warranted.  But I do not change my mind about likong someone that easy.  You ahve to earn it.  You have not.

Yea, yea, I know.  I am a cry baby.  My feelings are hurt.  I have heard it all before.  Spare me.  And yes, I know that you could care less whether I like you or not.  Same here.

P.S., I just realized that you used the words "threatening and threat".  Believe me.  I do not feel that way.   Don't lose any sleep over the thought I might.

On that subject.  I considered starting a thread about the names people choose on this saite, as their identifier.  I think that it says something about the individual, by the choice of screen name they choose.  For instance, if you pick the name, let's say, "show me your peter", you are probably a crass troublemaker.  If you pick the name Get a Real Frickin Dog", you probably think that showlines a woosies.  If you pick the screen name "funked up", then you probably are.  etc, etc.

I chose the family motto of the Stephanitz family.  "Do Right and Fear No One".  Because it fit into what I wanted to be perceived as.  If you pay close attention to the postings on this database site (or hell, on any chat site), you can just about know the charactor of a new person, or a veteran poster, by the name they have chosen.

It somehow works out, even though you can not really know them, that you can know them, from just their chosen screen name.  It is an interesting Fruedian type subject, that maybe some of us could discuss sometime.

Wow. Dude. Let me reiterate I am not trying to threaten you. Relax. I haven't referenced you in any threads. Surprised you would think I did.

Again with the attack talk? There is no one out to get you. You're safe. Focus on slowing your breathing. I gotta tell you, little buddy, you're sounding really bugged out right now.

It's just a thread on a message board, Walter. It can't hurt you.

C'mon. Life's too short for all this. Are you going to be upset forever? I'm not upset with you. Heck, I don't even care if you apologize. Everyone's getting along really well lately. I'm not saying we should be drinking buddies but geeze let's just put this behind us and enjoy the board? Whaddaya say?

On second thought I don't want to try and pressure you into something you don't feel comfortable with.

Don't worry about it.  Just, I don't know, be happy.

Feel better?

vRRROOOOOOMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

"I chose the family motto of the Stephanitz family.  "Do Right and Fear No One".  Because it fit into what I wanted to be perceived as.  If you pay close attention to the postings on this database site (or hell, on any chat site), you can just about know the charactor of a new person, or a veteran poster, by the name they have chosen."

Perhaps you worry too much about how you are perceived.