They are all the same breed - Page 9

I know that you like the straight" American back", but please look at Linda Shaw's website and see the illustrations.

The bulk of the dog’s body weight consists of the head, neck, forehand and chest, all of which is suspended in some way from the thoracic vertebrae. At this point along the spine, the dorsal spines change from the forward thrust of the lumbar region, to the taller, slightly backwards configuration of the withers. Between these is a slight dip. This dip may or may not show, depending on the dog’s muscling, fat coverage and coat quality, but it is there, and it’s perfectly normal (Fig 8). All land mammals have it. Breeding in a roach to try to eliminate it in some misguided attempt to produce a stronger looking back actually produces a spine that cannot as efficiently transmit power. The vertebral disks of the withers should align in a straight line with the lumbar vertebrae, to most efficiently continue the path of propulsive power, but the visible silhouette of the correct back will show a slight change in direction between the line of the withers and the back. As long as there is no actual buckling of this coupling, the dog is showing a normal back.

Very nice discussion guys. I'm very happy with the direction the board has taken the past few days. Alot of good thoughtfull posts and not only on this thread. I wish it could be this thought provoking and  informative more often. Keep up the good posts! 

I love Linda Shaw's site (stumbled upon that discussion years ago and saved the specific link with illus).  She seems to basically tell it like it is - NO ONE comes out unscathed, the way it should be.  The fact she shows "German" vs. "ideal" puts any illusions about the current German propensities being always superior to rest.

I think Dallas is a terrific dog.  By far the best I've seen in the American side for years.  Although his ears are a bit short and weak.  But sad he died.

I hope everyone realizes there is a slight difference - a rift - in American AKC showing/breeding.  There is "specialty" and there is "all-breed".  Dallas is "all-breed".  The all-breed GS tends to be a better dog than the truly bastardized "specialty" GS.  They do cross, but oftentimes, the BIS dog does not get into the National Specialty, much less win it.  It seems unspoken, but it's true.  Much more attention in the GS Review is paid to specialty than to anything else.

Goes to show that being myopic about a breed is not what it's cracked up to be - it's good to have people who can see the forest for all the trees.  Input from "outsiders" who "know nothing about the breed" can be very good.

OlLineRebel:  I must disagree with what you said about Linda Shaws "The illustrated German Shepherd".  Here is a link to it and specifically to the page where she compares the various "types " of shepherds.  She says the West German Show line dogs come closest to the standard.  So to me, she is saying they are superior to the rest.   She is not very complimentary of the modern American Show Shepherd".

http://www.shawlein.com/The_Standard/13_Breed_Type/Breed_Types.html

I just want to state that I don't think I am misreading her intent, after all, I am a working line gal.

Ol Line Rebel,

I'm talking about his father who was a great handler during the Lamar Kohns era and handled Stormhaven's Dolf

Gustav,

I'm talking about Ken Rayner, Sr., not Jr. known as "Chip" who is very active today!  Ken Sr. and wife Marion brought me together with Shana.

sue,

You are correct, she says such things.  Actually, when looking all over her items, I found alot of confusion.  I also saw that she showed the roach-back as 1 of the "lesser" dogs, even while she states that the "show" dog is the best.

Bet I know why.  Probably because no line - except perhaps working lines - conforms to the ideal.  IOW, perhaps for her, the best AVAILABLE is the German show.  But it still needs improvement.

Tell us how you really feel Jeff. LOL I think that picture was placed on this thread for the reasons you just so eloquently stated. Did you happen to read the thread or just stop and look at pictures?