Who objects to this dog being bred? - Page 7

http://www.donnerbruecke.de/zucht/Deckpartner/kalleW.htm

Körbericht: nicht gekört

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't that mean not approved?

In UScA a longstock coat disqualifies a dog from obtaining a breed survey, but I don't speak German and don't know what the SV rules say. 

In the past I have said that of course there are certain times a dog is not able to obtain a breed survey but is of such overwhelming quality that he should be bred - but this is the rare exception that proves the rule.  When I have made that statement I was not thinking of dogs who could not qualify due to conformation issues. 

I stand corrected and apologize for my original remarks about this dog.  This dog has proven himself to be at the top of the sport over and over again.  His bloodlines are impeccable.  Only those most knowledgeable in breeding should take this dog for breeding, but then I have also said only those most knowledgeable  should be breeding anyway!  Does anyone know how any of the dogs from his early litters are doing?

I do however feel very strongly that this exception should not apply to every coat who participates in the BSP. 

Finally, Blitzen is absolutely correct when she made this statement, we all know folks on this board who are unfortunately going to use this particular thread to legitimize the continuation of breeding their non breed surveyed pets (never mind their dogs aren't worked for real or in any sport anyway!).

"My concern is how many novices are going to be influenced by all of this and if it will mean even more puppies produced by dogs that are not breed worthy. Not all here know the difference and I can just imagine those with dogs that are not eligible for  breed surveys jumping up and down applauding thinking - goodie, goodie now I can breed my dog without feeling gulity since so and so says it's OK and he/she are THE BREED EXPERTS.  The bar has been lowered one more notch in order to make way for legitimizing using dogs for breeding that are not eligible for a breed survey. "

My understanding is a dog that has passed a breed survey must be free of all faults listed in the SV rules in order to be issued a KKL1 or KKL2. Actually, DH, I was speaking in general terms here, not specifically referring to this dog.  I've read all the posts to this thread including yours and I am still not clear on whether or not he'd be eligible for a KKL or if a "G" rating is sufficient or the same level as a KKL rating.  You seem to have indicated it is. This is why I limited my remarks to a general discussion and did not specifically mention him or any other dog. 

If the SV says it's OK to breed a dog without a KKL rating if it has a "G" rating, then I hope that is the message that is being conveyed to the new people here who are thinking about breeding for the first time. Does that "G" rating needed to be earned in Germany or can it be earned here too? Where can that be found in the SV rules for breeders?

SV Rules for the Breeder

"4.1.2 Dogs "suitable (Allowed) for Breeding

Dogs suitable for breeding are those that get classification 2 (Korklasse 2) at an SV breed survey. 4.1.3 dogs "Recommended" for breeding.

Dogs recommended for breeding are those that get classification 1 (KKL1) at an SV breed survey."

If you want to read more:

http://siriusdog.com/sv-rules-german-shepehrd-kennel.htm

And by the way, when I said I didn't know who owns the dogs we discuss, it was to let you know I am not swayed by some big shot who may have influence, not because of any other reason so please don't assume I don't have feelings for the owners of dogs.  From my first post to the last I said I thought this was a great dog, but if you need to twist my words to mean something other than the intent, have at it.

Blitzen,

I don't know if your comments are aimed at me or not but my comments have always emphasized that NOBODY should breed that is unknowledgable about the breed. My only point is that some how people think because they have titles and certs that takes the place of knowledge and thus they are rarin to go. You persistent referrals to the concern of novices lends me to clarify that I don't think novices and knowledgable are compatible!!! Thus for ME it is not about titles vs non titles. Its all about your homework in breeding and I don't think novices qualify.!!....Gustav

Maybe I get it now, another quote from the SV Rules for Breeders translated by Lanting:

"4.1.1 Dogs Admitted to the Gene Pool

To be allowed breeding rights in the SV system all dogs must be entered in the studbook and possess on the date of mating a training degree such as Sch 1-3, IP 1-3, HGH or an equivalant training degree, obtained under an SV judge (applies to German residents only).........In addition, at an an SV confomration show or breed survey they must have the breed evaluation of at least "good" and have both the "a" stamp for hips and a DNA archive number marked in the Ahentafel.........................Two classes of breeding animals are hereby distinguished..............KKL2, and KKL1....."

First the dog needs to be titled as above and then it must be rated as good or better at an SV conformation show or breed survey. I assume this would be the official "breed survey". After that, the eligible dogs can go on to the Korklasse at an SV breed survey. If they do not exhibit any of the listed defects ....character flaws, severe HD, cryptorchidism, ear and tail faults, deformaties, missing teeth, considerable pigment faults, also blues, long coat with or without noticeable undercoat, bite faults, bitches that have given birth three times with Caesarean (C-sections) the pectineus muscle having been cut - then they will be eliglbe for either a KKL1 or 2 depending. 

A coat (or a dog with any of the above listed characteristics) is eligible for and can abtain a breed survey if it places "G" or better in its class. It proable will not receive a Korklasse -  KKL1 or 2 however. Did I get it right now, DH ? Would it be correct to say a long coat, pigment faults, bad tail, etc might earned the right to claim it is breed surveyed, but it would probably not receive a KKL?

Gustav, I have no clue who you are or what your do with your dogs. I was not referring to you or anyone else specifically. I think you have a good outlook on breeding dogs. I've been around long enough to understand that titles are not all there is, but on the other hand there are the SV rules that are intended to be followed to the "t".  Either breeders adhere to them or they don't and there are good arguements for both sides of the issue. I'm sure there are many wonderful GSD's produced from untitled dogs without KKL ratings. No, novices do not qualify to make such decisions and that is my point. They look to experience mentors and if they are getting the message that titles and KKL's don't count, it might not be in the best interests of the breed.

Blitzen, I don't know who you are or what you do with your dogs either, I have no problem with your desire to follow SV rules and applaud you, I just happen to live in America, I follow rules that apply to the American registry. I have bred titled dogs , I have titled dogs, but my views on the breed have been shaped by what I have learned is good for the breed. Some of what SV does is excellent to me and some of what SV does I think has not improved the breed. Therefore, I chose to share my thoughts on these subjects and RESPECT others, albeit not necessary subscribing for myself. If what I post makes little or no sense, I am sure the majority of the people here, old and new, will reject it out of hand as making no sense. I appreciate your response.

Baaah...baaah...bah