Training with force? - Page 7

It's nice to know there is always the 2 X 4 to fall back on. 

I have a showline bitch that i have trained only obediece but i have done all training with strict koehler methods, which include force training. I used force retriving method of ear pinching. and strong corrections for everything else. There were times when she seemed like she didn't get it but a week later she was retrieving that dumbell like  a labrador. It takes time and some common sense on the trainers part. Every dog is different and in my experience with people who hold back on force training it was that the correction was not tough enough to get a good result. you can't hold back. Do the force or correction with enough toughness and calmness and you won't have to do it again. Get your point across the first time or your just abusing the dog. you shouldn't have to ear pinch or correct the dog every week if you are then it's not a strong enough correction and you are just being abusive at that point. And in all trainng even force training lay the groundwork down. Make sure the dog knows what you want before you use the correction. You can't correct the dog for what it doesn't know.

Is this Cesar?  I thought my mother was the last person to use the ear pinch method.

They named the toilet line, Kohler, because it was full of shit.

I too have used some of Koehlers methods but the books are old and things change, new ideas and methods.

I dont think they are really full of it but they are hard to read.  

I am not fond of force training at least not the term.   i dont want to make my dog do something out of fear of pain.  There are better ways.

JMO

We used to travel by horse and it was reliable.  Should we have continued that method? 

I would think that everyone that has been training dogs for a bit have used the Koehler method.  I know I started out on it.  But, like a bad hair cut, things change.  You grow. 

I am thinking of parking the gas guzzler and getting back on the horse..:)

I agree things change.   Some things stay the same.   

I don't compete in Schutzhund but have trained trailing dogs/ narcotic but have been lucky I guess in that they loved tracking and will retrieve anything that you throw; all day long. By only using motivation they haul booty with the item back to me as fast as they can get to me.

They also will trail for miles and never loose their enthausim or drive, all for a snack or a toy at the end of the track.

Have trained in SAR with people and seen their dogs get into a thorn or sticker patch and shut down and have to be helped to get out. My dogs would go right over and never slow down.

I guess depending on your dogs drive will warrent different training methods but was trained early on to use motivation and your dogs don't quit when the going gets tough.

I can see in competition tracking the need for some "compulsion" in order for the dog to understand the need to be precise.

LMAO, Don your killin' me.

Times change because people become too sensitive. I was spanked as a child and my children will be too. A correction is appropriate when the ground work has been done. When the dog knows what to do from your ground work and then chooses not to do it  a correction is needed. And a CORRECTION not no little tugging dog abusive little tug on the collar. One good correction that lets the dog know he should do what i command him or her to do. And times may have changed but i will put miy Koehler dog up against any treat trainer or other method out there. WHen the distraction is very good that treat trained dog is not gonna listen but my dog knows better. Koehler works if done correctly, and i am only talking about Koehler in the sense of obedience training for novice to utility.

I feel the problem here is that when i train my dog with Koehler the training applies to every situation not just in the ring. I see these wonderful lab and retrievers trained with treats that score top dog but put them outside around distrations and they fall apart. Think about it do you want a dog that listens in the ring with new methods or a dog that LISTENS all the time with Koehler.

Don your comments are funny but one could go the other way to and say babies are now made in test tubes and even cloned but you know what i'll go with the good old fashion way of making my babies. It works and always will just like Koehler