American showline dogs posting here. Why? - Page 6

 The point I was trying to make is this.

I know a lot of dogs with no schutzhund titles that are great dogs with great temperament. I have also seen some sch. 3 dogs with bad temperament (agressive or not stable).

Which mean that a schutzhund title doesn't guarantee you the dog has a balance temperament. It only prove the dog can work.

Other point..If they're would be only schutzhund dog the Gsd wouldN't be such a versatile breed we see today. Different work need different dogs. IMO

Showline breeders know the difference between working dogs and show dogs..The one I know don't scratch their head when the K9 unit chooses some working dog lines..That's what they are bred for. Genetic is there. 

Has anyone noticed the original poster bhaugh hasn't returned to respond.

Where did ya go Barb??

Did anyone feel the tug as your chain got yanked?

I call this a drive by....LOL

I know a lot of dogs with no schutzhund titles that are great dogs with great temperament. I have also seen some sch. 3 dogs with bad temperament (agressive or not stable). True, my dog has great temp and nerves and he won't ever have a Sch title. That's not my sport but at least he will title in something and there is no doubt he can and will work, has solid nerves and makes a decent representative for the breed.

Which mean that a schutzhund title doesn't guarantee you the dog has a balance temperament. It only prove the dog can work. Again dancing around the real issue...what American dogs have any working titles/real world jobs? Proving the dog can work at something decent would be a start. Sch is that start and will weed out some of the bad nerved dogs and should weed them all out if the judges, handlers and trainers would all be honest with themselves. It's not the sport of Sch that doesn't work when it comes to nerves and temp, it's the human error or dishonesty that hurts the breed.

Other point..If they're would be only schutzhund dog the Gsd wouldN't be such a versatile breed we see today. Different work need different dogs. IMO Ehhh not so sure about that. My dog comes from a long line of Sch titles and CH WUSV/BSP dogs. We aren't locked into doing Sch with him and I have no plans to, unless I someday have the $ to ship him to someone else to deal with. I don't do tracking, don't want to do tracking, don't care to have my dog bitting a sleeve. If I had the $ to burn, I'd get him titled anyway( by someone else) just to prove he can, but the likelyhood of that is slim to non. PSA, Mondio, FR, KNPV are also good indicators a dog has some sack under him. I'm even doing my own version of service dog stuff with my dog on the side. Teaching him to bring me things and pull me up when I sit on the ground. All I care is that a dog of (working breed type) can do something functional, sitting still while dying kids and old people pet them, isn't a "skill" in my eyes, so we can just forget about that as an actual job. How many ASS shepherds do police work or are eye/hearing dogs? My guess is a fraction, for every WGS or working line dog that does.

We have to be realistic in what titles or jobs constitute "work". No OB titles are not working titles, a pomeranian can do that too, any breed can. Schutzhund was made just for the GSD as an example of what the minimums should be for "THIS BREED", that is why so many deem it important. Someone had to draw a line in the sand and say..."this is what they must do" Max did that, so it isn't the public falsly interpreting him. If there was no minimum requirement, the ASS is what they all would be.

Asslan Klaemmle comment:

It is my understanding that Asslan's dam, Zilly, failed to qualify in the temperament and courage test for the breed survey, or a V rating at the Sieger show. The weakness is blamed on Canto, and their progeny's temperament has been questioned. I have read because of this, new regulations were in enforced so that Zilly's progeny were unable to receive the V rating. So Asslan and his sister Atrice were exported to America. Atrice finished her Championship but was never sound enough to do well at the nationals. Not a family I'd want to breed into !

This is my favorite American Shepherd.

www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/pedigree/412367.html

Caralon's Phantom v Lebarland

He was a "prepotent" sire who passed on his excellent qualities.

Quite a masculine hunk of dog. Too bad everything changed because of Covy Tucker Hill. A wrong turn indeed.

Michele and Pharaoh

In all fairness, I think that Am line breeders are beginning to recognize the need for their dogs to prove themselves in a working venue. Many are turning to herding, agility, rally,  etc.. Am lines have been doing well in the OB ring for years.  Advanced OB titles are not easy to earn. AKC will never approve Schutzhund or any mansport, so the AKC faction will stick with what they can do at AKC shows that will earn their dogs titles.  Another thing for us to consider is that Am lines are often shunned at Sch clubs. Hell, some don't even want Showlines as I found out in 1995.  Try showing up at a training session with a 125 lb longcoat sired by an imported showline out of a Am lines bitch. I was not exactly welcomed with open arms but the trainer would have loved to have kept him for training. I guess it was me he didn't want . Also, most Am lines breeders I know do their own training; they do not hire pros. How many imports would be titled in Sch if the owners didn't hire a pro to do it? Not many.

It's different strokes for different folks.

Wentachee, you have made a good point. Too bad that sloppy work at the US Sieger gets those Va dogs more stud fees rather then fewer. How screwed up is that?

AKC does now recognize Schutzhund titles.  Or at least they are "allowing" a few recognized trials each year.

Why not is a better question... it is a Data Base for ALL GSD's, not just working/ Competition lines.  I LOVE the working GSD, but have owned both.  Right now I'm debating which would fit better into my life.  I'm 59, with some physical disabilities that mean I won't be competing in Schutzhund or agility.  I'm also not going to be able to hike and exercise a high drive dog as I once could.  So I'm considering American Lines as a companion/ housepet and perhaps PPD... and yes you can still find American lines that are stable enough to do that without too much trouble.  That's in no way bashing Working lines, but the high drive and prey instint may be a bit much for my abilities now...  so I'd like to see more non competition lines advertised here personally.