American Bred GSD Hatemail... - Page 2

Lovely post, Susan. Your Hawk was a real winner in my mind.

Ditto, Trailrider.

I talked with Mike in the UK some while ago.He used to be involved with Scotland Yard.His dog yrs ago was the highest at the cruft.he explained to me how things have changed for the breed...and how it is there now with police-work.He is enjoying his retirement but still wants to teach.When every one is just saying this or that about their dogs.Trully what difference do they make.

If I may add 2 cents worth...[don't blow up here, but think about it]
You know, it takes alot more effort, money,  time, etc. to put an American AKC CH on a dog than it does a SG or V-rating.
In AKC, those dogs who are decided worthy for an AKC CH title have to be shown alot, win a number of 'majors' (which often requires some travel to find shows offering majors), and acquire a certain number of points in order to obtain a Championship title.
With German/foreign dogs, you can feasably go to 1 show and obtain a conformation rating, whether it be SG, V, etc. One time and you're done, unless you choose to go to other shows in hope of obtaining a better placement, but still, one show and you have a rating.
Training is BASICALLY the same; the dog has to be taught to gate, be in excellent condition all around, to stack, be ok around other people/dogs, and have a handler who knows how to handle that dog and present it best.

With that said, should we admire a dog who only has a CH more than one who only has a V or SG-rating? There's little difference, really, when considering breed-worthiness. Sure-both dogs have been shown and deemed nice dogs according to the judges' interpretation of the standard, but there's nothing to prove the workability of the dogs, thus breedworthiness, is there?

Working titles, whether they be CD, CDX, UD, AJ, or BH, SchH1, FH, AD, so forth all require total different training than for conformation ratings and Championships. AKC requires you to earn THREE legs, or three attempts  with acceptable scores each time under at least two different judges in order to obtain an obedience title, whereas again, German shows only require one show with an acceptable score and the title is earned. Does Schutzhund take more effort to train for? Most definitely! But they're ALL important and should be acceptable in our breed as a whole; we have a general delimma of people growing lazy in general and not wanting to train their dogs, period. We here in Ohio have noticed a gradual decline of entries in obedience for German Shepherd Dogs; it concerns us, but it's not because the breed has declined in popularity or has grown dumb...its on the other end of the leash where the issue lies. I think people should be encouraged to get off their rears and work with their dogs, no matter WHAT it is; whether it be schutzhund, obedience, agility, rally, SAR, flyball, SOMEthing. It's better than nothing at all and whether you breed or not.

With this all said, should an American GSD have to earn something more than a mere CH? I think they should at least TRY, yes. Should their hips be certified? Why not-that's a health issue, not an "American versus German" lines issue. The German Shepherd breed was meant to be a working, intelligent breed, so I do feel some effort should at least go into trying to show such. We should be able to accept an American bred GSD who's earned its CH, obedience title & OFA-Good just as much as we do a dog with a V-rating,  SchH1 & a1 hips. Whichever you personally prefer to see/own/like/ etc. is exactly that-your preference. Nothing wrong with that. That's the beauty of this country-freedom to choose what you like.
It doesn't prove anything to pick sides and beat each other down about such things; it was studied and established years ago that if three people are put in a room and given enough time, two will side against the one. I guess its human behavior to wanna argue, even when it's not necessary.

Hi all,

When I went looking for a GSD to replace our am.-ger mix which lived 12 yrs, I looked at breeders around my area. The only breeder here in town bred Ger. show-line. His dogs had no titles. He imported his dogs from titled parents,but did not title any of his. Anyway, I'm not a real big fan of the roach-back found in his dogs, so I looked at Am line breeders. I knew I found what I wanted when I found a breeder that had dogs that were conformation champions, OFA'd hips and elbows and some kind of title on all of their dogs, either obedience, tracking, or herding. I knew what I wanted, looks (my taste anyway) and at least some kind of "working" or trainability worked in. I looked for this kind of breeders.

 Well Katjo74..very good post, you took  the words out of my mouth,

I just want to add that a lot of Am. show dogs are well in to herding title right now.  Since we meet a lot of different people at the National (schutzhund, herding agility, obedience, rallye) cause everybody organize their own trials on the same week, it's becoming clear that a lot of breeders are interested in those other aspect of working with dogs.  I think tis idee to reunited all aspect of the GSD is really to way for everybody to understand how wonderful and versatile this breed is.  i've seen working people at the conformation ring, show peole lokking at herding and working trails..It' s a great pleasure to see all those folks reunited because they have one thing in common;;

THE LOVE FOR GSD..YOU SHOULD ALL COME..IT,S A REALLY FUN EVENT..

Great post katjo, food for thought to all for sure!

Mystere I think you need to re-read my post. I didn't say you said there were no American bred's w/o obedience titles, I said "I am not per se from the American bred community but I think there are GSD's in the Am. showlines that do have AKC obedience titles on them, it is kind of hard to research such though."   And yes I am from Montana, actually was at a show this June with a acquaintance of yours and put a CD on my male, who was sired by her SchH3 male who she bought from me, as she was putting a CD on her newest boy also. Small world,eh? I really haven't troubled myself to see what was out there in the American ring that may or may not have had titles behind there names, maybe I will look into it sometime but we have only one show here (Missoula) per year.

Yeah Puputz, I always come back to that one too. But the hard core show people say it's all about structure! NO we don't pretend to know Stephanitz's every thought and wish, but there was enough written down to know, some of these dogs just ain't right or correct, contort the standard all you want, if they can't work, they are not a GSD.

Kato. "With that said, should we admire a dog who only has a CH more than one who only has a V " You are an idiot. A V has a sch degree (3 phases) and the conformation. People quit being nice to these spook, broken down 'poorly bred dogs. Most of us started with the north american dogs many years ago and would gladly beat those that have dragged it to the lows it now is. This is stupipity at its worst. Its been a while since I have posted here because work is NOT discussed. In our house both show and working dogs reside. We have had to go GERMAN to have dogs that we are proud of. Yes my better half knows all the AM lines and shows them. She would not own one.