American Bred GSD Hatemail... - Page 3

Breed standard is perspective but can the dog do the job it was bread for...and still do its job. as in...how long could a heavily anglated dog guard the flock without burning out or hurting itself!

Brrrrr! Realcold..... "You are an idiot. A V has a sch degree (3 phases) and the conformation." Maybe you oughta do a little catchup on some of these V dogs getting their titles in the box aka Midnight trials! Maybe you missed out on some of the kool VA dogs this year at the SS, especially the ones running past the helper to take a pee on a tree.

"Yes my better half knows all the AM lines and shows them. She would not own one." Kinda hypocritical don't ya think?? Go back to your hole and lurk unless you can be civil.

Puputz:   

That "V" rated dog has the V show rating, AD (endurance title), acceptable hip AND elbow ratings,  a KKL 1, AND a scHIII title.   The AKC Champion trots fast in a little circle in one direction.

Pretty is as pretty does.  The GSD is a working dog, the ASS no longer works. Realcold, you said it brother, stupidity at it's worst. 

Let me be very clear:  I HATE what they have done to the breed in this country.  Even worse, the idiots are so damn arrogant they don't care.  I will always resent them for turning the  breed I love into a good for nothing show pony.   What passes for GSDs in AKC shows (specialty or all breed) is nothing short of sickening.  

Kind of ridiculous to keep bringing up the San Jose SS as if it somehow proves something bad about German Line dogs in general, especially since Am Line dogs DON'T DO ANY WORK AT ALL so there is no comparison.

No, I will not "make nice" or sing Kumbayaa in hopes we can all "just get along".  Enough of this BS.  If you or anyone else doesn't like mine or Realcolds or anyone elses opinion, take it up with Oli or his mystery mods.  Good luck with that.

I'm on the same page as sueincc, every word of it.

Whether you show for a German conformation rating OR an American CH title, all they are required to do for such is "trot real fast in a circle" and be picked by a judge who is handing out the placements.  It's the same basic principle, regardless of your cold comments. It doesn't change the truth of the matter. Just one has to be done multiple times whereas the other only has to be done once. I merely used that as a general compairison.

Also, I asked a question- should we admire a dog who only has a CH more than one who only has a V or SG-rating? It's up to each individual to answer that to themselves. If the dogs have only been conformation shown (as the question clearly denotes), then where is the right to look down one's noses at one versus another, regardless of what conformation rating the dog(s) have earned? Just because of personal preference? Nothing was said in that concerning SchH titles or any WORKING titles, period. It was a compairison of the conformation showing only and asking how we can say one is better than the other over that alone.

It is not MANDATORY for a GSD to have a SchH3 in order to go V-rated. No AD is mandatory to get a V-rating, either. So who's the idiot, Realcold?

The KKL IS based on the dog having both a SchH title and AD. 

So Sue, in all cases, that "V" rated dog does not always have that SchH3, AD, KKL1A, certified hips/elbows, etc like you say-we've got enough shelters filled with GSDs to prove not all GSDs bred and produced are top notch (there's one sitting in a shelter currently with three obedience titles). And in some cases, some of those V-rated SchH-titled dogs have been shipped overseas, been kept in a mediocre kennel for a while, then shipped back to the owner a month or so later with a majical V-rating and SchH title. Admit it-it does happen, more than we wanna admit. There's already a stench made about such going on currently, isn't there? Seems not all aspects of the GSD world, whether it be American-breds or Imports is all angelic and perfect. It's not the breed's fault. Like I said-the problem is on the other end of the leash. I'm just being realistic.

We have temperamental imported GSDS just like we have temperamental American bred GSDs. I've seen BOTH ends of the spectrum on that first hand. Both aspects have their positive and negative. It's being able to be objective about it that makes the difference. I'm not a fan of temperamental dogs, or ones who are severely inbred or anything like that. And neither am I a fan of GSDs who are so aggressive that anything can set them off and make them a potential danger, or scared of their own shadow. But we all know such things exist in the breed. And no one is saying anything here to favor extremes one way or another.
 

I have a friend who has shown several breeds in the AKC ring, not just GSDs. Her family is well known in the AKC show world, and I very much enjoy hearing her stories of interesting situations that have occurred over many years of being part of the AKC circut.

One story she told stuck out in my mind as I read this thread. Pardon my paraphrasing, as even though I have heard this story several times, I am sure I will leave something out.

A well known handler was working on grooming one of her dogs before her ring time. A potential client arrived, standing in front of her with her dog, and asked, "Would you be able to handle my dog to Champion?" The well known handler, continued grooming her dog and never looked at the potential client or her dog. "Yes, I would." The potential client, a bit taken aback, asked, "How do you know you could take my dog to champion, you haven't even looked at him?" The well known handler, still continued grooming her dog, and still did not look at the potential client. "It doesn't matter what your dog looks like, it matters how much money you have."

This story has always stayed in my mind when people talk about AKC shows. It is true, it doesn't matter what breed the dog is, whether it is american gsd, sheltie, poodle, pom or english mastiff, if the money is there, the dog will get finished. All of us who know anyone who has ever shown in an AKC ring have heard the stories of dogs with poor temperament. Not all, but most breeders who show, breed for the look, and in so doing, sacrafice the dog as a whole. If I am to be real honest, we see it in German Show Dogs as well. In the journey to produce our "ideal' dog we sacrafice some of the most important and fundamental aspects of the dog. But, then the dogs who are close to the standard, and have the correct temperament, aren't always placed where they should be. Money and Politics have and will most always play a part in how standings are made. If you have the money, you can get a handler to take that dog anywhere and everywhere to get the points it needs to be a champion. Does it matter to that handler if the dog is free of HD or ED? sadly,. probably not.

 It's the same basic principle, regardless of your cold comments. It doesn't change the truth of the matter. Just one has to be done multiple times whereas the other only has to be done once. I merely used that as a general compairison.

LOL I can certainly walk around the block 3 times but don't ask me to run it once. Apples and oranges.

Don't you also think it's possible that anyone with enough money can have a Va/V dog in the US ? The performances at the last US Sieger certainly emphasized that politics are rampant in the SV ring as well as the AKC ring.

I've showed at AKC shows since 1970 and I personally know a lot of people who have handled their own dogs to championships, groups placements and BIS wins without a pro handler.  I have finished 4 dogs myself,no pros hired and one dog won a very big specialty from the bred-by-exhibitor class. I did not know any of the judges my dogs won under and I've never spent one cent on a pro handler.  Some pros like Moses could probably push a dog around the ring in a wheelbarrow and win under some judges. Shame on them for accepting sub standard dogs and muddying the waters for the owners/handers/breeders who try to do the best they can without politics.

I've been to a lot of AKC shows, only NASS as far as big SV shows go. However, I assure you I saw plenty of ring politics at the Pittsburgh NASS; they are not confined to AKC shows. In fact the smoozing and inside the ring crap was far more blatant at NASS than at any AKC show I ever attended. I was appaled that dogs bred by the judge were in his ring and how people just walked into the ring to the judge's table to speak to him prior to entering the ring with a dog.  Coversation being carried on inside the ring with the hanndlers? And the judge has the catalog before him so he knows the breeding and the owner of every dog he's judging. That doesn't happen at AKC shows; we are far more descrete in the way we cheat

There's room for cheating in every venue of the dog  world. It's up to the ethics of the owner whether or not he or she participates in it. Most here already know which dogs are the best, they don't need a judge to point that out to them. If they only know by looking at show wins, then they need to go back to square one and study the breed before generating another litter.

Advanced OB degrees are hard to attain. Doing the same exercises successfully 3 times is not easy. A CDX requires a lot more than heeling and a recall and a UD requires even more.  If you've never seen an AKC OB trial, you might want to try it one day. You won't be turned into a pillar of salt just for looking  Seriously folks, OB trials really are fun to watch.

 >A CDX requires a lot more than heeling and a recall and a UD requires even more.  <

There's a reason many people refer to the latter title as "Futility", eh, Blitzen?