PRIVATE BREED SURVEY - THE FACTS - Page 2

Mr Prince was correct in his explanation of how this Survey was "arranged" but omitted a couple of facts. He approached me to ask if one of his bitches needed to be entered in a class to go in a Kennel Parade at the Sieger Event and was told that it did and that it would need a Survey to be entered in the Adult class. There were no more Surveys due to take place before the Event but I had noticed on the pdb a couple of people saying that they would have liked to be Surveyed (I believeTigermouse was one of them) and I thought about trying to get one going at Essex, and John Robinson, as our nearest Surveyor, would have been the obvious choice. This was not practical, given how busy I am at the moment, so Phillip asked John Robinson if he could do one at his Club. John said he could do five in the time available. I put it on pdb for the benefit on anyone who wanted to get their dogs done.  Far from being a private survey this would have been about as public as you can get with the eyes of all Leics Club watching.  John Robinson, for whatever reason, changed his mind and the rest you know.

This is not the first time Mr Payne has accused peopleof running private Surveys. A couple of years ago he was on the same theme about Mo Lakin and a Survey that she, as secretary of Birmingham & District, arranged at her Club. Although there were very few dogs done on that occasion, it was not a private Survey , but that did not deter Mr Payne from sounding off. 

It is desirable that 8 weeks notice of a Survey is given, but that is not always possible. The next booked Survey is in March at GSD Club of Wales. Unless another Club wants one before then. 

Mr Payne has also stated in e-mails this week that dogs with Working qualifications have been accepted into the Adult Class at the Sieger Event.  I am the ONLY person who knows what the entry is and I have not yet told even the Event Working Party so anything Mr Payne, or anyone else, says about the entry is pure conjecture. Sheila Rankin

Philip; I would NOT move on any of my principles to accommodate Rhoda having a Kennel Group at any dog show. Rhoda would tell you that.

VIDEX had its first Kennel Group at the Wales 2 day show some 20 years ago, we came 2nd to Bedwins Kennel, the entry conditions were very clear: ALL DOGS HAD TO BE ENTERED IIN THEIR RESPECTIVE CLASS AT THE SHOW AND THEY HAD TO COMPETE.IN THEIR CLASS TO BE ELIGIBLE TO BE IN YOUR KENNEL GROUP PARADE.

This has been to RULE to my knowledge ever since. This is the Rule at the German Sieger Show, and I feel sure it is the same at EVERY other National Sieger Show that I know about.

There are ACTUAL SV rules for Judging the Kennel Groups at the Sieger Show, which include a percentage of POINTS for each dogs placing at the Sieger Show.

To have a dog in a Kennel Group which is entered into the Show by the closing date, without the requisite Breed Survey, which it is planned to obtain before the actual Show, and with NO intention of competing in its Class, is to me, an amazing revelation. Any such entry in a kennel group will NOT have to pass a gun test, or undergo the rigours of competing in a Sieger Show Class. It appears to me that the "standards" of our British Sieger are becoming so ridiculous as to render it "without reasonable credability".

This on top of the ENTRY REQUIREMENTS issue in respect of the ADULT CLASS. I believe dogs with Schutzhund/VPG/IPO qualifications are being accepted into the ADULT CLASSES. Which if true is CONTRARY to the ENTRY RULES as printed in the Schedule. This will allow ANY person who owns a dog that is placed behind such an entry, to complain to the Kennel Club, with, in my opinion, a clear chance of their complaint being UPHELD.

My comments are NOT, and have never been intended to sabotage the British Sieger, I have raised this last issue before. They are intended conversely to support the British Sieger by ensuring that MISTAKES are avoided which brings it into disrepute, and therefore undermines its status and consequently its future. In the case of my pushing for SchH1 to be the minimum required for consideration of a VA title, this is because MOST females only have SchH1, and to increase the entry into the Working Dog Class, and it is allowed under WUSV resolution, so WHY make the ability to gain a VA title out of reach of a SchH1 female or Male for that matter, at this stage of developing our British Sieger.

I totally reject the comment I received in writing from one member of the British Sieger Working Committee, in writing, who stated the following:

"IF WE MAKE MISTAKES, WE MAKE MISTAKES - SO WHAT - WE LEARN FROM THEM AND GET IT RIGHT NEXT YEAR." "YOUR TALK OF A COMPLAINTS PROCEDURE IS CHILDISH AND PETTY"

I find such a comment INCREDIBLE, especially with it coming from a committee member.

Finally Philip, I do apologise for calling for yours and the others resignation or removal. I had been up all night, whelping Maike and it took 26 hours, from midnight Friday through to 2am this morning. I edited the change fairly quickly. It was a mistake I made, born out of being falsely accused by a couple of morons.

Sheila: "conjecture" - NO! - information 'indirectly' from a Sieger committee member? - YES!
we will see!

This is just one of the emails I have received, incidentally from a championship show judge:

Hi David
I have read the database regarding the 'Private Breed Survey' I am fully in agreement with your sentiments on this (not because of who is involved!) I also had some dogs that I wanted to enter and when I realised that I had left it too late for Breed Survey I thought shit, I am so stupid, this should have been done before. Did not even consider anything else-Surely if Survey is a requirement of entry it has to be done before close of entries ie 17th September 2008. What if the dog failed the Survey ie temperament,gun-test? Would the entry be in the catalogue? It is in my opinion a nonsense, we either have rules and abide by them, whoever you are or continue to buck the system, the thing the Brits do BEST Ha ha 
Just my thoughts

With David's last post, yes i'm afraid I will have to bite back. 

David, obviously our friendship means absolutely nothing to you, as your high MORAL'S take president.  But I am appaulled what you have posted regarding a private email you have received from a Championship Show judge.  You have slated people on this site by calling them "Bastard's, Scum, Cowards" and much more when they are anonymous to their post's and you stand by your action's, and you put an email on from a Championship Show judge with NO NAME, who end's the email with "Ha HA", Is this a Professional Championship Show judge?   Where are your Moral's? You cannot state 1 thing and do the opposite.  This person could be JJ or yourself, David.   Maybe this person is a friend of your's?  David, your obsession of arguing and being right all the time has got to stop. 

To the Championship Show judge if there is one, you could of phoned Sheila like I did, you could of answered the post Sheila put on here regarding Breed Survey at Leicester Club.  But you diddn't. That tell's me you wasn't really interested. 

To all the Brit's hoping the Sieger fail's, you should remember one thing that these people on these committee's work very hard for you, and should be supporting them all the way.  And if thing's go wrong on the day then disscuss it after, not before the event and try to destroy it before it's even happened......... The Great British Way.

Regard's

Philip Prince 

seems i have become one of the posters whose comments just simply disappear.NEVER MIND. I was simply asking for an apology from MR PAIN since he accused me of being one of two morons who accuesd him of involvement in a private breed survey. I HAVE NEVER ACCUSED HIM OF ANYTHING. But i will repeat what i said in my last post that "disappeared" in my days as a journalist,i aften found big mouthed,foul mouthed,and defensive people often have the most to hide. just as well i copy everything i post and what is posted to me!!!!  bye Davie look forward to your next PM they are so incredibly funny.You really should not take life or yourself soooooo seriously,cill ot man. yours liz.

What if things are identified that could and should be changed or clarified prior to the Show? Is everyone really expected, to do or say NOTHING?

Maybe it's the way it's said or done that people don't take kindly to? liz

DP, I've read all the posts (including the missing one) and you are at fault here... you may not have started this ball rolling, I know you were wrongly cited as the original organiser by someone... but for heaven's sake, you owe people a full apology.  It sounds like you're on the verge of losing a good friend... sort this out, good friends are hard to find.  You owe Sheila Rankin and Nikki Farley a full apology too; you made it sound as though they were doing something suspect and underhand when they were trying to help someone... EVERY Club Sec' takes late entries now and then!  Every Club needs as many entries as poss'.

Any valid point that may have existed has been lost because of your rather mad rantings!  You are in the wrong, admit it, apologise, keep your friends and put it behind you!

David, Thank You for your Apology to me and the others, Nikki and Sheila.  I accept your Apology.  I did not see this before!

Just a quick note, David, when you did your Kennel Parade 20 years ago, you diddn't have Breed Survey's then, but you do now and it through us off track abit, aswell as a million thing's going on in our life, especially before the German Sieger show.

Regard's

Philip Prince