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by Two Moons on 09 March 2009 - 17:03
At this age the pup should be socializing and learning about the world around it. And just being a puppy.
At this age the pup should never be left to run into trafiic or get into any situation that could possibly result in harm to the pup, supervise and bond, teach the pup to be attentive. Let the pup explore and get the excersice a young pup needs at the end of a long line.
Experienced trainers may or may not know how to properly use the device but amatures should never use this device because the harm that can be done can never be undone, the dog will never forget such an experience.
I wonder sometimes how many of these competent trainers actually know what they are doing as well.
by AnjaBlue on 09 March 2009 - 19:03
by zdog on 09 March 2009 - 19:03
by 4pack on 09 March 2009 - 19:03
Though Dals are a non sporting breed, they need TONS of excersize, which most normal households can't give. I suggest giving them a job, a strenuous one!
by Mystere on 09 March 2009 - 20:03
Agree: the clear consensus is that this should NEVER be done with a baby puppy.
by OGBS on 09 March 2009 - 20:03
Chris, You seem to be a rather intelligent person, so, I am sure that you can figure out that putting an e-collar on a 3.5 month old puppy is much different that putting it on a 5 month old puppy with a major problem. 3.5 months old to 5 months old is only six weeks to us, but, a rather large gap in a dog's development. As an experienced trainer this should be fairly obvious to you.
What is it that the 3.5 month old puppy needs to be doing that it should need an e-collar? 3.5 month old puppies need to be built up, not, torn down.
The director of training at my club, who has competed in the world championships, tells it like this. Shitty training and the latest gimmicks come from people who want to cut corners because they do not want to take the time to do it correctly. These are the people that you see failing at trials all the time because they can't take the gimmick on the field with them.
We use e-collars on a few dogs, but, they are used correctly. They woud never be used on a 3.5 month old puppy.
Louise, if you advocate using an e-collar on 3.5 month old puppy I now understand the answer to your question from a few months ago as to why Ingodds Albert growled at you last year at the USA Sieger Show.
by 1doggie2 on 09 March 2009 - 21:03
by Christopher Smith on 09 March 2009 - 21:03
Chris, You seem to be a rather intelligent person, so, I am sure that you can figure out that putting an e-collar on a 3.5 month old puppy is much different that putting it on a 5 month old puppy with a major problem. 3.5 months old to 5 months old is only six weeks to us, but, a rather large gap in a dog's development. As an experienced trainer this should be fairly obvious to you.
I appreciate that you think that I’m intelligent. Thanks. And as an intelligent person and experienced dog trainer I have learned over the years to use the word never on a very infrequent basis. I especially try to stay away form “I would never….” Every dog trainer that is worth their salt knows that there are too many variables to close ones self off to a certain training tool or method. I have not seen an instance where I would use an e-collar on a 3.5 month old dog, but I’m not closed off to the idea.
As to the particulars of the OP situation my only answer is I DON’T KNOW. I have not seen the dog with my own eyes. A dog freezing can come from many different things. It could be a case of learned helplessness from bad e-collar work. It could be a dog that internalizes stress. It could be a medical problem. It could be a phobia. But since I don’t know I have not made one comment about that situation. What I have made are general comments about training and the e-collar. Unlike some of the internet experts here, I ain’t got the mad skills to read one paragraph about a dog and training situation and believe that I have the answer. 20 years ago I had the all of the answers, but the more experience I get the less I know.
by zdog on 09 March 2009 - 22:03
Unlike some of the internet experts here, I ain’t got the mad skills to read one paragraph about a dog and training situation and believe that I have the answer. 20 years ago I had the all of the answers, but the more experience I get the less I know.Fair enough, but it doesn't take much to know that if you're going to a trainer and your dog is shutting down, for whatever reason, and that trainer can't figure out that there is something wrong with what they are doing, you need to find somebody that knows something.
From my experience, it's not a giant leap to think that a "trainer" that has new dog owner and new to training slapping an ecollar on a 3.5 month old puppy, and now that puppy shuts down in training, that the "trainer" doesn't have a clue.
by Christopher Smith on 09 March 2009 - 23:03
You assume that you know what the OP meant by “freeze”. How can you be sure? We can’t agree on what comprises defense drives or whether or not show dogs are as good as workingline dogs. Yet you assume to know with 100% accuracy that this persons “freeze” is the same thing as your “shutting down”. Can we be sure that your “shutting down” is the same as my “shutting down”? And I as said above there is are more than one reason why a dog freezes.
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