Why is the judging in the dog game so subjective? - Page 1

Why cannot the dog game judging be more quantifiable and less subjective. In foot ball a goal is not a goal unless it goes through a goal post. In cricket a ball hit out of the grounds goes for 4 runs or 6 runs. Nobody can judge this otherwise.

Why in the dog game cannot things be quantifiable- it can easily be done so that nobody has a doubt.

Politics.

Like skating, or gymnastics or diving, the judging relies on the opinions of experts. This creates built-in opportunities for bias. How would you say, can this be made quantifiable when judging is done within the spectrum of human perception? You know what is said about opinions and a**holes? Everybody has one.

Obviously there is a lot of politics involved, not with all judges but definitely some, I am not going to deny this. Theoretically there is a standard and there should be set rules but also we all (breeders and judges alike) have our preferences for certain types, so a certain amount of subjectivity is I suppose inevitable. For example I have noticed that some judges like big strong masculine males whereas others prefer more elegant types. Some judges put a lot of emphasis on colour, others not so much. Mathaus as I know you have competed with sable dogs and so do I, there is a particular issue here. However good in structure and movement some judges just don't like greys. This means the same dog can have very different positions according to the judge. Just something we have to accept I suppose.

The German Sheperd is a working dog.
It means that- movement/gait, stamina and bitework/temperamnt are important. IF I give you 2 dogs can you test  these parameters in  a quantifiable    way. Movement / ground coverage is measureable- make them both gait over predetrmined    distance-  you will have a winner. For stamina do the same over  longer distance with rest breaks- you will have a winner. Temperament / bitework is easiest to be judged by a panel of  5 judges with video recordings. Now do these for all your dogs.

Now you  have no human perception my friends which is questionable.

Now you may say anatomy- a software can be devoloped which will compare the dogs stack picture with a master. The master will consider     anatomy, color, pigmenation and anything else you want.


THIS IS  POSSIBLE.       YOU  GET 100%  TRANSPARENCY.

possible, but unfortunately not very likely

if you want to win, you have to kiss a few butts and hire the most liked handlers and pay a few people to say great things about your dogs to the people who will then tell it to the judges..........

or maybe it's not quite that bad........and some judges look for somethings and others look for other things and who know who will actually win..........depending on how the judge feels on that particular day.......

It's subjective because people are involved. It's true judges have slightly different interpretations of the standard. It's also true that judges are human and subject to outside influences aka politics. So you ask around and pick your judges according to which ones like your type of dog.

Yes but this is a sport and the best dog must win like any other sport. When you remove subjectiveness you are facilitating the stated scenario- every sport revolves around people. But that does not mean that the results have to be subjective. If you have a good dog he must win, irrespective of your friendship with the powers that be. So why should you go around searching for a judge that likes your dog type- if you have a good dog thats it- period - nothing more nothing less!

I have great friends who are judges but this is a discussion.

But in other sports there is a definite finish line, goal, score, etc.  When judging animals there is nothing definite about people's opinions.  You may have the best dog there but the next dog in line might be the judge's best friend or client. 

I've shown dogs, horses and now cats.  I keep score cards on the judges.  Who likes what and who to avoid all together.  Some shows are just going to be a waste of money. 

I had a judge last week place me very high in the finals and praise my animal.   In the next ring she avoided even looking me in the eye and I didn't even get a minimal score.  Same cats in the ring.  Why?  She saw a "nobody" take the cat she liked out of the show cage.  I don't even get pissed about it anymore.  Besides, her first score earned me my title anyway:)

It is about giving a subjective "Critque" on a dog by a judge versus Having a score book and recording points awarded.

That is subjective versus Objective. Since a dog is a mysterious animal it is inexact in its inherent nature and the same dog has different appeal to different humans.

regards