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by Uglydog on 06 January 2010 - 23:01
Jim,
You guys wear Vests.
Are you afraid of following suspects and tracking on lead, for fear of being shot or ambushed?
Better to let the dog get his?
Sounds suicidal for the dog in this case and/or job hazard.
You guys wear Vests.
Are you afraid of following suspects and tracking on lead, for fear of being shot or ambushed?
Better to let the dog get his?
Sounds suicidal for the dog in this case and/or job hazard.
Why not call backup, and proceed on a search en masse, when the area is more secure?
by Uglydog on 06 January 2010 - 23:01
Police Never Abuse Powers, Right Jim
Speaking of get over yourself
Heres an entire Page of videos of police brutality, You probably call it something else, though..
Women beaten, elder beaten, tazed, handcuffed...etc And people wonder why some innocents fearfully flee
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=police+brutality+&search_type=&aq=f
Speaking of get over yourself
Heres an entire Page of videos of police brutality, You probably call it something else, though..
Women beaten, elder beaten, tazed, handcuffed...etc And people wonder why some innocents fearfully flee
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=police+brutality+&search_type=&aq=f
by Nans gsd on 06 January 2010 - 23:01
I am just very sorry to have to say good bye to such a young hero; my condolences to his owner and family and the department. They have truly lost a hero.
by Slamdunc on 06 January 2010 - 23:01
Ugly,
I'm not going to explain K9 handler tactics to you. You know all about vests and the protection they offer, don't you have rifles that will go through vests like butter? I seem to remember you telling me that you had some rounds for me that my vest couldn't stop.
On lead tracking through woods is neither safe for the dog or handler, it's very simple. I could spend hours explaining how a dog tracks, how temperature and wind effect the track but I'll spare you with the details.
Why not call backup? I'm sure they did, they even had a helicopter. Go in en masse? The handler and dog are still first and it is still difficult to work a dog on lead through thick woods is the dark. I tracked 3 armed subjects in the woods 2 weeks ago on lead, during the day. It was on lead because it was a state park with hikers strolling around. After 2 miles the dog led me to the campsite and picnic table the guys were at.
Fear of being shot or ambushed is an occupational hazard. Am I afraid of being shot, hell yea. Do I do my job anyway, of course. Am I careful, of course. Fear is not the worst thing if you use it correctly, it keeps you on your toes. If you do my job and are not concerned with being shot you are a moron and need to find a different line of work.
I love my dog and have raised him from a pup. He is one of the greatest dogs I've ever owned. Being a police K9 is a very dangerous job for the dog. I never want to see my dog get hurt and I wouldn't send him into a dangerous situation in place of myself. He's not expendable in my mind.
I can only assume you are trying to bait me with these questions, surely you aren't serious or sincere. (except for the part of having rounds that will go through my vest.)
Jim
I'm not going to explain K9 handler tactics to you. You know all about vests and the protection they offer, don't you have rifles that will go through vests like butter? I seem to remember you telling me that you had some rounds for me that my vest couldn't stop.
On lead tracking through woods is neither safe for the dog or handler, it's very simple. I could spend hours explaining how a dog tracks, how temperature and wind effect the track but I'll spare you with the details.
Why not call backup? I'm sure they did, they even had a helicopter. Go in en masse? The handler and dog are still first and it is still difficult to work a dog on lead through thick woods is the dark. I tracked 3 armed subjects in the woods 2 weeks ago on lead, during the day. It was on lead because it was a state park with hikers strolling around. After 2 miles the dog led me to the campsite and picnic table the guys were at.
Fear of being shot or ambushed is an occupational hazard. Am I afraid of being shot, hell yea. Do I do my job anyway, of course. Am I careful, of course. Fear is not the worst thing if you use it correctly, it keeps you on your toes. If you do my job and are not concerned with being shot you are a moron and need to find a different line of work.
I love my dog and have raised him from a pup. He is one of the greatest dogs I've ever owned. Being a police K9 is a very dangerous job for the dog. I never want to see my dog get hurt and I wouldn't send him into a dangerous situation in place of myself. He's not expendable in my mind.
I can only assume you are trying to bait me with these questions, surely you aren't serious or sincere. (except for the part of having rounds that will go through my vest.)
Jim
by Uglydog on 07 January 2010 - 00:01
Not baiting, Jim
I understand the challenges and hazards of your job and the dogs too.
Ive seen footage of foolish K9 Handlers, sending dogs to die, opening fire and killing their Mali, for instance.
People make mistakes, cops included.
They gave up high speed chases around here, too dangerous. Maybe they will change how the dogs are used and/or a safer way to protect them.
Yes, my 338 will go through any vest, like Butter. Its primarily an Elk and Bear gun.
Thats why I bought it, for hunting Out West, on game, not for deafeating vests.
Most Kevlar with plates are rated for 7.62x39 or 2600fps. Ive got several that'll beat that.
Should politicians or their goons try to take them, they can have the guns, bullets 1st.
I am glad they these suspects were arrested. I believe they were guilty, as most are.
I will that, By and large, most cops do a good job.
We are lucky to have a very professional department where I live.
But 2 districts over in Blue Ash, cops recently shot and killed a chihauhua on a porch, while knocking on the wrong door, without incident against them for thier actions.
Strange times, indeed.
I understand the challenges and hazards of your job and the dogs too.
Ive seen footage of foolish K9 Handlers, sending dogs to die, opening fire and killing their Mali, for instance.
People make mistakes, cops included.
They gave up high speed chases around here, too dangerous. Maybe they will change how the dogs are used and/or a safer way to protect them.
Yes, my 338 will go through any vest, like Butter. Its primarily an Elk and Bear gun.
Thats why I bought it, for hunting Out West, on game, not for deafeating vests.
Most Kevlar with plates are rated for 7.62x39 or 2600fps. Ive got several that'll beat that.
Should politicians or their goons try to take them, they can have the guns, bullets 1st.
I am glad they these suspects were arrested. I believe they were guilty, as most are.
I will that, By and large, most cops do a good job.
We are lucky to have a very professional department where I live.
But 2 districts over in Blue Ash, cops recently shot and killed a chihauhua on a porch, while knocking on the wrong door, without incident against them for thier actions.
Strange times, indeed.
by Blazer30 on 07 January 2010 - 03:01
Prager maybe you should donate a new import, or a puppy you feel has the potential to turn out to be an appropriate replacement dog someday.
I'm not being sarcastic. But it would be a tremendous sincere gesture to coincide with bringing attention to this Czech hero dog right? The truth is this is a real life testament to the grit and heroism that czech dogs have been revered for.
I for one believe these kids if found guilty of unjustifiably murdering this dog, should be jailed for killing this K9 officer just as they would a human officer.
The only pertinant information that would nag at me if I were a juror in this case, or the judge responsible for handing down proper sentencing with a conviction, is whether or not the boy who strangled the dog had a reasonable belief that the dog was going to kill his brother, if said strangulation was not applied.
If your familiar with the legal arena, you know that it is somewhat a legal grey area whether or not a third party has the right to intervene, if a law enforcement officer was lets say attempting to make an arrest and in the proccess, the officer seemed to be intentionally attempting to kill a handcuffed perp/non reasonably imminent threat. There are then so many variables that would change the dynamics of how the application of law would be excercised.
Although you are being arrestted, you still have the legal right to protect your life or the life of your family member/friend, if you reasonably feel that life is about to be taken away by the officer legally unjustifiably. There are existing precedences. And you really would need to know all truthful facts to properly assess. If the dog had a hold of the stranglers brother and was repositioning and inflicting massive unnecessary damage while the bitten boy had ceased to struggle or resist. Then at this point the brother applied the choke, I would say that is justified self defense on the boys part. Since at that point the dog is inflicting possible lethal damage without proper legal provocation. Now if the boy applied the choke while the dog was attached to the other boys leg and the boy was struggling and fighting, therefore the dog was struggling and fighting theres alot more to discuss there.I think it is obivious they are guilty of burglary and resisting arrest. The question at bar in my mind would be whether or not they had the intention to murder the dog unjustifiably in accordance to the laws that govern said action. My belief is they did not belive they would be murdered by the dog, the strangulation was an attempt to assist in their escape.
I'm not being sarcastic. But it would be a tremendous sincere gesture to coincide with bringing attention to this Czech hero dog right? The truth is this is a real life testament to the grit and heroism that czech dogs have been revered for.
I for one believe these kids if found guilty of unjustifiably murdering this dog, should be jailed for killing this K9 officer just as they would a human officer.
The only pertinant information that would nag at me if I were a juror in this case, or the judge responsible for handing down proper sentencing with a conviction, is whether or not the boy who strangled the dog had a reasonable belief that the dog was going to kill his brother, if said strangulation was not applied.
If your familiar with the legal arena, you know that it is somewhat a legal grey area whether or not a third party has the right to intervene, if a law enforcement officer was lets say attempting to make an arrest and in the proccess, the officer seemed to be intentionally attempting to kill a handcuffed perp/non reasonably imminent threat. There are then so many variables that would change the dynamics of how the application of law would be excercised.
Although you are being arrestted, you still have the legal right to protect your life or the life of your family member/friend, if you reasonably feel that life is about to be taken away by the officer legally unjustifiably. There are existing precedences. And you really would need to know all truthful facts to properly assess. If the dog had a hold of the stranglers brother and was repositioning and inflicting massive unnecessary damage while the bitten boy had ceased to struggle or resist. Then at this point the brother applied the choke, I would say that is justified self defense on the boys part. Since at that point the dog is inflicting possible lethal damage without proper legal provocation. Now if the boy applied the choke while the dog was attached to the other boys leg and the boy was struggling and fighting, therefore the dog was struggling and fighting theres alot more to discuss there.I think it is obivious they are guilty of burglary and resisting arrest. The question at bar in my mind would be whether or not they had the intention to murder the dog unjustifiably in accordance to the laws that govern said action. My belief is they did not belive they would be murdered by the dog, the strangulation was an attempt to assist in their escape.
by Prager on 07 January 2010 - 21:01
Yes I have had the same thoughts too. The point here is that if you watch the videos of these hoodlums they are not hurt that much. As matter of fact I have not seen any wounds on them . It looks like that the dog just was ripping their cloth off. Thus I do not think that this scenario applies here.
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com
Prager Hans
http://www.alpinek9.com
by Slamdunc on 07 January 2010 - 22:01
Blazer30,
I understand your point and argument, it is well taken. However, it has been accepted by the Supreme Court that the use of a K9 is not lethal force. The deployment and use of the dog in this situation is completely legal and acceptable. The use of the K9 to apprehend two armed fleeing suspects is not excessive force and there is no gray area here. You simply can not assault or kill a Police K9 or Police Officer to avoid a lawful arrest, which this was. Let's stick to the facts and not introduce hypothectical situations. Your last sentence was completely on point.
Jim
I understand your point and argument, it is well taken. However, it has been accepted by the Supreme Court that the use of a K9 is not lethal force. The deployment and use of the dog in this situation is completely legal and acceptable. The use of the K9 to apprehend two armed fleeing suspects is not excessive force and there is no gray area here. You simply can not assault or kill a Police K9 or Police Officer to avoid a lawful arrest, which this was. Let's stick to the facts and not introduce hypothectical situations. Your last sentence was completely on point.
Jim
by Prager on 07 January 2010 - 23:01
not 2 but 4 suspects. And Jim thanks for clarifying it for me with the lethal force. That makes sense.
Prager Hans
Prager Hans
by Uglydog on 08 January 2010 - 00:01
Did these punks really kill the dogs with their bare hands?
Jim..saw this for you today, I could post one like it everyday but wont for decency sake. Just as not all innocents that run are guilty and thats why we have a courtroom and dont shoot them in the back, so too, not all cops are decent either.
Minneapolis Cop Arrested for alleged Robberies
By BOB VON STERNBERG, Star Tribune
Last update: January 7, 2010
Timothy Edward Carson
Dakota County Sheriff's Office
A Minneapolis police officer has been arrested in connection with a series of robberies in Apple Valley.
Timothy Edward Carson, 28, was booked into the Dakota County Jail early Thursday morning on probable cause of first-degree aggravated robbery.
Carson is assigned to the 3rd Precinct, and is a member of the SWAT team.
Police said they have linked him to a series of robberies over the past month. Although the booking information does not specify which robberies Carson has been linked to, the Apple Valley police department has highlighted five recent robberies that investigators believe have been committed by the same suspect.
Jim..saw this for you today, I could post one like it everyday but wont for decency sake. Just as not all innocents that run are guilty and thats why we have a courtroom and dont shoot them in the back, so too, not all cops are decent either.
Minneapolis Cop Arrested for alleged Robberies
By BOB VON STERNBERG, Star Tribune
Last update: January 7, 2010
Timothy Edward Carson
Dakota County Sheriff's Office
A Minneapolis police officer has been arrested in connection with a series of robberies in Apple Valley.
Timothy Edward Carson, 28, was booked into the Dakota County Jail early Thursday morning on probable cause of first-degree aggravated robbery.
Carson is assigned to the 3rd Precinct, and is a member of the SWAT team.
Police said they have linked him to a series of robberies over the past month. Although the booking information does not specify which robberies Carson has been linked to, the Apple Valley police department has highlighted five recent robberies that investigators believe have been committed by the same suspect.
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