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by steve1 on 03 March 2010 - 21:03
Barb
Your wish will be granted, For how can you respond when someone like Held has a head full Saw Dust instead of Brains
Steve1
Your wish will be granted, For how can you respond when someone like Held has a head full Saw Dust instead of Brains
Steve1
by judron55 on 03 March 2010 - 22:03
wow...this is still going on...go train your dogs folks:-)
by Held on 04 March 2010 - 17:03
Adlerbach, your comparison make no sense yet you are an educated person wow.First of all anyone can be adog trainer if they have half a brain and lot of common sense and patience and if you are open minded and know where to look for good info.But to become a physician, you have to go to school for years and get formal education -- so you see why i would be tempted here to say lady what the freaking are you talking about.Also you are saying titles and degrees are not everything,weel, you are wrong again titles mean shit,but degrees if you did not have a degree would they still let you be a physician. I do not know you tell me.Good luck and have a nice one.
by VomMarischal on 04 March 2010 - 18:03
Held, sorry if I'm a dumbass here (god knows it's true), but wouldn't the ear posture denote different things in conjunction with the rest of the body's posture? My dog's ears do go back sometimes when she's submissive or insecure (which is a continuing problem in our long down), but they also go back sometimes when she's really happy or really determined. I mean, I've heard some people even dumber than me say that if a dog wags its tail when it's barking at you, then it won't actually bite. But my dog wags her tail the whole time she's biting. So...doesn't reading a dog kind of depend on reading a multitude of factors all at once?
You have a nice one too. Lately everybody thinks I'm being sh!tty when I write, but I'm not trying to be a sh!t here, I'm just askin'.
You have a nice one too. Lately everybody thinks I'm being sh!tty when I write, but I'm not trying to be a sh!t here, I'm just askin'.
by malshep on 05 March 2010 - 11:03
Ok I am going to be a stinker here and ask : when a dog does not have any ears, how are you going to tell what they are going to do? I know it is Friday and I am having an old lady moment :) Have fun training this weekend.
Always,
Cee
Always,
Cee
by GSDfan on 05 March 2010 - 15:03
Jeez...I haven't read the entire thread but I got the jist. I'm with Slamdunc and Gustav and all the rest...nice video, excellent dog.
Slamdunc just from reading his posts, he has more knowledge than most police K9 handlers out there and he adds/provides for us a very important POV and element... reality from experience... in to relation to training. I agree with just about everything he says. Gustav I know personally, many years in working dogs and a wealth of knowledge.
I don't claim to be any kind of expert but I certainly would side with those I know know their shit, rather than with someone who won't even share a tad of his resume but will spout off other peoples dogs he knows about and video's he watched. You don't ever KNOW a dog unless you are on the other end of the leash or sleeve for that dog, so I don't put alot of weight in naming dogs of others.
Also all these dogs you name...are you stating your knowledge and your impression of these dogs from watching videos of their trials? there isn't any excersise in a trial that really puts a dog in defense...not even a courage test!
I work with a department who trains rescue dogs for patrol work. Would certainly not be my choice of dogs but that's the way it is, I don't make the executive descisions. But from my experience I have seen the extremes, the negatives, the way you don't want a dog to react in defense. A dog that cannot transition from prey to defense well.
"Remember, when reading a dog you must take the whole body into account including the eyes, tail, ears, lips, posture, vocalizations, etc. All of these must be included and all of the signals the dog is giving must be added up and read not just the ears. To remove one signal or one cue and read it can be very misleading. The message from the dog is the sum of all of those signals. "
Slamdunc is 100% right IMO, Held is evaluating and making conclusions from a small fraction of the dog...the ears.
If a dog is shown alot of close heavy pressure aggitation and put in defense, wouldn't you want the ears back, wouldnt' you want the dogs tone of bark to change? the dog is IN DEFENSE!!? If a dog who has his ears forward and keeps a rythmic bark, the same as they do in prey, with close pressure isn't the dog is not seeing the reality, is too confident...is not taking it seriously?
Wouldnt' there be something missing if you show a dog alot of pressure and he didn't transition to defense? Wouldnt that be abnormal?
Held these great dogs you speak of...have you ever seen them in this situation, on a table with close heavy pressure? I guarantee you they would react very similarly if they were.
More telling to me is the quickness and strength and willingness of the dog when he/she engages (takes the bite). A dog that is NOT confident, insecure or unsure will not be quick, will not grip hard, will not grip full.
Strut transistions from prey to defense repeatedly and very well IMO. Her ears are not pinned to her head the entire time, they are up and down as she transitions in and out of defense. The tone of her bark is another indication of her transitioning....She is very forward, strong and confident with her aggression regardless of what drive she is in.
Slamdunc just from reading his posts, he has more knowledge than most police K9 handlers out there and he adds/provides for us a very important POV and element... reality from experience... in to relation to training. I agree with just about everything he says. Gustav I know personally, many years in working dogs and a wealth of knowledge.
I don't claim to be any kind of expert but I certainly would side with those I know know their shit, rather than with someone who won't even share a tad of his resume but will spout off other peoples dogs he knows about and video's he watched. You don't ever KNOW a dog unless you are on the other end of the leash or sleeve for that dog, so I don't put alot of weight in naming dogs of others.
Also all these dogs you name...are you stating your knowledge and your impression of these dogs from watching videos of their trials? there isn't any excersise in a trial that really puts a dog in defense...not even a courage test!
I work with a department who trains rescue dogs for patrol work. Would certainly not be my choice of dogs but that's the way it is, I don't make the executive descisions. But from my experience I have seen the extremes, the negatives, the way you don't want a dog to react in defense. A dog that cannot transition from prey to defense well.
"Remember, when reading a dog you must take the whole body into account including the eyes, tail, ears, lips, posture, vocalizations, etc. All of these must be included and all of the signals the dog is giving must be added up and read not just the ears. To remove one signal or one cue and read it can be very misleading. The message from the dog is the sum of all of those signals. "
Slamdunc is 100% right IMO, Held is evaluating and making conclusions from a small fraction of the dog...the ears.
If a dog is shown alot of close heavy pressure aggitation and put in defense, wouldn't you want the ears back, wouldnt' you want the dogs tone of bark to change? the dog is IN DEFENSE!!? If a dog who has his ears forward and keeps a rythmic bark, the same as they do in prey, with close pressure isn't the dog is not seeing the reality, is too confident...is not taking it seriously?
Wouldnt' there be something missing if you show a dog alot of pressure and he didn't transition to defense? Wouldnt that be abnormal?
Held these great dogs you speak of...have you ever seen them in this situation, on a table with close heavy pressure? I guarantee you they would react very similarly if they were.
More telling to me is the quickness and strength and willingness of the dog when he/she engages (takes the bite). A dog that is NOT confident, insecure or unsure will not be quick, will not grip hard, will not grip full.
Strut transistions from prey to defense repeatedly and very well IMO. Her ears are not pinned to her head the entire time, they are up and down as she transitions in and out of defense. The tone of her bark is another indication of her transitioning....She is very forward, strong and confident with her aggression regardless of what drive she is in.
by afwark15 on 05 March 2010 - 15:03
"go Nates'web site Sportswaffen and watch a young dog name HUGO is being worked properly and in right drive and lok at the ears"
I would just like to point out that I went to Sportwaffen's website just now, and their homepage is a huge outlined picture of a dog going in for a bite on the sleeve. THIS DOG'S EARS ARE BACK! hahahaa. Just thought that was funny
Amanda
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